Wednesday, July 29, 2009

Why Obama's Health Care Plan Is Vital for America

Here is what the White House says about Obama's new Health Care program:

"The current system often denies insurance due to pre-existing conditions, charges steep out-of-pocket fees – and sometimes isn’t there at all if you become seriously ill.

It’s time to fix our unsustainable insurance system and create a new foundation for health care security. That means guaranteeing your health care security and stability with eight basic consumer protections:

No discrimination for pre-existing conditions
No exorbitant out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles or co-pays
No cost-sharing for preventive care
No dropping of coverage if you become seriously ill
No gender discrimination
No annual or lifetime caps on coverage
Extended coverage for young adults
Guaranteed insurance renewal so long as premiums are paid

Learn more about these consumer protections at Whitehouse.gov.

Over the next month there is going to be an avalanche of misinformation and scare tactics from those seeking to perpetuate the status quo. But we know the cost of doing nothing is too high. Health care costs will double over the next decade, millions more will become uninsured, and state and local governments will go bankrupt."

It's high time for the White House to get the real facts out there, and not let its Health Care plan be buried by the Right-Wing Noise Machine. There must be a reason why Britishers visiting the USA rush back to England if they get sick, and don't stay here in the US where they might be bankrupted by a serious illness. The same goes for Frenchmen, Italians, Germans, Canadians, etc. Even a poor country like Cuba has universal medical coverage for all of its people, which we don't.

Find out the real information about Obama's health care proposals -- don't just blindly accept Conservative misinformation.

117 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good post CJP.

Insurance companies suck. Under W, when business's were favored above all else, including consumers, insurance companies pushed to maximize every penny of profit. They hire minimum wage help to work all day looking at ways to deny claims. Our insurance company used third party billing, who took unpredictable amounts from the payment heading to the chiropractor. It varied between 12-27 dollars for a doctor payment of 75. After spending dozens of hours arguing with the insurance company we just gave up. After all, your arguing with someone making minimum wage, is trained to obfuscate, delay, and waste your time. They know the odds are you'll give up.

Well time to pay the piper insurance companies. No one feels sorry for you except Faux news and the cons that believe its drivel.

Anonymous said...

"Find out more real information about Obama's health care proposals -- don't just blindly accept Conservative misinformation."

Yes, I'd advise you to take your own advice and actually read the plan. Then keep up on the compromises that are currently being proposed.

Brandon said...

Anonymous-
Have you ever waited on the phone trying to sort anything out with the IRS? You will spend your whole life arguing with them.

Spend any time talking with SS, medicare or unemployment?

Not only will you be talking to someone who could care less about your problem but they also are impossible to fire! Even less customer service.

If you dont like your current insurance company, why dont you shop around? You dont have that option with the government. Yeah, I can keep my current insurance company and pay for yours.

CJP said...

Thank you, Anonymous. I think it's time for the White House to get the real facts out there, and not let this Health Care plan be buried by the Right-Wing Noise Machine. There must be a reason why Britishers visiting the USA rush back to England if they get sick, and don't stay here in the US where they might be bankrupted by their illness. The same goes for Frenchmen, Italians, Germans, Canadians, etc. Even Cuba has universal medical coverage, which we don't.

Anonymous said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490233/Record-numbers-abroad-health-treatment-70-000-escaping-NHS.html;jsessionid=452D1D4CEBF9A9B3D84061C269E52450

Anonymous said...

http://tinyurl.com/lnmact

Brandon said...

Maybe you should read the link below your last comment. The Britishers are leaving their country to seek health care other places! Long waits and piles of paperwork, what government can do for you. Oh, but wait, your not worried because someone else will be paying for your medical costs.

Anonymous said...

Wow Anon, I really like your apples and oranges. You compare Canada and the UK to our health system. We spend more than both of them combined.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

Maybe we should compare the US to a country who spends as much as we do. Oh wait, no one spends even close to what we do. And we are ranked 37th in quality. Oh those wonderful insurance companies, don't you just love them? I sure don't. France has the best medical care in the world. I would switch in a second and pocket thousands in savings.

Anonymous said...

Anon, from now on when you compare any other country's socialized medicine please use France's example. Then figure we'll do even better as we will spend twice as much.

And Brandon and Anon, once again, Obama is not pushing for socialized medicine. He's pushing for choice. Why do you all hate free choice so much? Don't you think the insurance companies can compete? What are you afraid of?

I can hear Anon already. It's the first step to socialized medicine. Yes, Anon, and socialized medicine is the first step to socialism, and socialism is the first step to communism, and communism is the first step to ??? JC.

Don't you guys like freedom? Don't you want another choice? What are you afraid of?

Anonymous said...

I was responding to CJP's false comment that "There must be a reason why Britishers visiting the USA rush back to England if they get sick." What about that did you not understand? Once again, you missed the point completely and went off on another tangent.

Anonymous said...

Anon, why does our wonderful insurance run health care so much worse than the commie French health care, and costs twice as much?

Anonymous said...

Brandon, I don't have a choice in health care unless I want to pay out of pocket for it. I have to health insurance policies. One is with my wife and one is with my corporation. The corporations is a perk from a client.

Figured if something really bad happens I would not go bankrupt with two sets of insurance. Instead all they do is fight with each other and me on who has to pay. It's wonderful.

Anonymous said...

And Brandon buddy, you will not likely find out that your insurance really, really sucks, until it's too late. Under W, things did change. The insurance companies have the upper hand. Thank you know who upstairs, that's about to change.

Anonymous said...

Cons, why can't our capitalistic health insurance companies compete with the French health care system? In both quality and cost the French beat our great care providers by wide margins. Please explain.

Anonymous said...

And exactly how would the French system, a nation that covers only about the size of the state of Texas and has 1/4 our population and 1/7 of our GDP, scale to a country with a population of 300,000,000?

It won't.

Anonymous said...

"It won't."

What's the saying? Excuses are like aholes, everyone's got one.

Most everyone has better health care than we do, well at least 36 countries anyway. And we spend double what anyone else does if we combine the costs then divide.

How can we rationalize with you cons, when your so irrational?

What about Japan's health care? What's their population?

Anonymous said...

Obviously you don't know beans about economies of scale.

Anonymous said...

Sure Anon, you cons are experts on all financial matters. W proved that.

What about Japan. I didn't even bother to look it up. I know approximately what their population is (guessing 300 million), and I'm pretty sure they spend about half what we do on health care, and they are ranked above us in quality of care.

Those gd commies. Why do they dislike insurance companies so bad?

Anonymous said...

Yep. You don't understand economies of scale.

Anonymous said...

Sure Anon, you cons are experts on all financial matters. W proved that.

What about Japan. I didn't even bother to look it up. I know approximately what their population is (guessing 300 million), and I'm pretty sure they spend about half what we do on health care, and they are ranked above us in quality of care.

Those gd commies. Why do they dislike insurance companies so bad?

Anonymous said...

You keep bringing up W. How many times do I have to say it? Do not confuse neocons with conservatives.

And parroting the same question again gets the same comment again: Obviously you don't know beans about economies of scale.

Brandon said...

Anonymous:
How can a private insurance company compete with the government. I private company wont stay in buisness long when they are paying $100 billion each year just to provide coverage.

Another thing you mentioned was that France pays next to nothing compared to the U.S. But you havent taken into accound that the average persone income per capita is the highest in the world. Wouldnt it make sense that our personal costs would be higher in most areas? Such as energy and health care.

Where did you find your information ranking the quality of health care?

Anonymous said...

"Where did you find your information ranking the quality of health care?"

Type it into google and see for yourself.

Ok I'll give you the key words. Hang on a sec. Ok, back. Try "health care quality rankings" in google. I just skimmed the results. I keep seeing 37th ranking for US, so assume the results are close to what I am referring to.

Anonymous said...

He won't listen to you. He'll just randomly pick something from his list:
[Raygun]
W
Faux News
"look at Japan"
"Why are you afraid of freedom?" (HA! Nevermind that this takes AWAY freedom of choice!)
"Insurance companies suck"
"Obama is smart"
"Let's give this a chance to succeed -- because Obama is smart"
"cons are dumb"
Etc.
etc.
etc.
ad nauseum

Brandon said...

5% of the population accounted for more than half of all costs.

So if we fix 5% of the population, we can cut the cost in half. Interesting, maybe there is an answer hidden in that 5%.

However, the U.S. is the leader in medical innovation, with three times higher per-capita spending than Europe and producing more new pharmaceuticals, medical devices, and affiliated biotechnology than any other country.

Oh, maybe there are so more costs. We develope a large portion of the medical tech. Under Obama care that would have to be cut. It just costs to much. Sorry if we almost got a cure for your cancer!



-Anonymous:

How can a private insurance company compete with the government. I private company wont stay in buisness long when they are paying $100 billion each year just to provide coverage.

Another thing you mentioned was that France pays next to nothing compared to the U.S. But you havent taken into accound that the average persone income per capita is the highest in the world. Wouldnt it make sense that our personal costs would be higher in most areas? Such as energy and health care.

Anonymous said...

Brandon, are ye drunk?

Just compare other countries, 36 other countries, to ours, regarding health care quality and cost. And please look at the quality of sites you are looking at. NY Times and Faux News are not equal. Words are not truth. Words are words. The mass repetition of words, do not make said words true. amen.

Anonymous said...

"The mass repetition of words, do not make said words true."

I completely agree. Case in point: Your constant repetition of --
(a) admonitions that our health care is worse than that of socialist systems
(b) Your characterization of "Faux News," just for the hell of it in any thread regardless of subject or context
(c) Your pronouncement of "amen" after your own posts, as if congratulating yourself that you'd just said something ostensibly "profound"

Not to mention everything the misinformation that the liberal media keeps drumming into your head.

There are words that convey facts and truth, and there are words that, no matter how often they are repeated, are lies at worst and disinformation at the least. The mass repetition of the latter does not make said words true.

CJP said...

Sadly, the Good Anonymous has the only brain that's posting on this site. Most of the other Brains have been thoroughly Washed by the Right-Wing Attack Media and are now Brain-Dead beyond recall.

Anonymous said...

"There are words that convey facts and truth"

Words are words. And "truth" is truth.

Jc get over it. What don't you get about... Words???

ANGRY FOR GOD said...

More like FATAL for America, his sweet, thoughful plan to KILL of the old folks.
DEUTCH LAND LIBIS ALLIS!

(Your granny FIRST)

Anonymous said...

"(c) Your pronouncement of "amen" after your own posts, as if congratulating yourself that you'd just said something ostensibly "profound""

No Anon, wrong again. You and W and the rest of the cons have a great knack for being wrong about everything. I was trying to obliquely point out that words, even Jesus's words, are none the less only words, and although HIS are often pretty, they are also mostly untrue. amen.

Anonymous said...

"What don't you get about... Words???"

Obviously, you and CJP don't get anything about it, for your words convey neither fact nor truth.

And there you go again with W!! And bashing on religion!! You simply cannot stay on point. It is physically impossible for you. You also cannot comprehend the "words" that you are reading, obviously.

W is not a con; he's a neocon. How many times do I have to say that before you'll stop lumping him and me together, or portraying me as some sort of fan of his and other neocons? I've already addressed this MANY times.

I've also already addressed my views on God and religion, and religious fanatics.

I have also already addressed that there are different types of conservatives, many of whom vehemently disagree with each other on certain issues. I am a fiscal conservative and a social libertarian, as I've already pointed out at least three times. I am NOT a religious conservative and I am certainly NOT a neocon such as W.

Get it through your thick skull.

Anonymous said...

"Get it through your thick skull."

If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, and if it smells like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Anonymous said...

Right. You haven't been comprehending anything I've been saying, have you?

CJP said...

Hey, Angry For God. Thanks for your posts. It's nice to be in touch with a raving maniac.

I rarely have the chance to hear from a madman. Keep blurting it all out. Share your insanity with the world. We love it. You provide us with a rare window into the soul of a lunatic.

Anonymous said...

"Japan has the highest life expectancy in the world – 76 years for men and 82 years for women – despite having one of the highest smoking rates in the Western World (26.3% of the population in Japan compared to 16.9% for the U.S. according to the WHO). Think about that for a second. On the other end, they have one of the lowest, if not the lowest, infant mortality rates in the world."

They spend half what we do on health care per person. Everyone knows that economy of scale always lowers costs, so imagine if they had the same population we did.

Cons, once again your wrong about US government/non-profit run health care. You nuts are wrong about absolutely everything. Then when your ideas don't work out you find a scapegoat.

Why do you want to sabotage the USA? Are facts pushed aside in your little brains, because you are so brainwashed? Do you think our people are inferior to the Japanese, and we are so incompetent that we can't match them in health care performance? You cons just want to spend, spend, spend, so your idols, the health care execs, can have big salaries, and you can aspire to be like them. Why not go live vicariously through someone else? Lives are at stake. Your homes are at stake. You're one medical condition away from bankruptcy.

Brandon said...

Anonymous
You keep ranting on about how bad our health care system is, but do you refuse to except that our system is far better than other countries in different areas than cost?

What about responsiveness? #1 in the WORLD. You dont spend much time waiting for care here in the United States. If you dont think that is a FACT then check your own sources! You could try google.

So while the rest of the world is waiting for care, you can walk in. It may cost alittle more, but at least you can live to tell about it.

Anonymous said...

Brandon, you ranter, all we want is competition and free choice. I want to be able to choose a non-profit or government run health care. What are you afraid of? Why do you cons hate freedom so much?

Brandon said...

Copy and Paste:

Anonymous:
How can a private insurance company compete with the government. A private company wont stay in buisness long when they are paying $100 billion each year just to provide coverage.

What choice is left when the government runs insurance companies out of buisness?

Anonymous said...

"What choice is left when the government runs insurance companies out of buisness?"

But Brandon, we know how incompetent the government is. And they will just break even, not make a profit. The crafty ultra efficient insurance CEO's will figure out how compete. They are so good at what they do. How does UPS, Fed EX, and the others compete against the US Post Office?

Anonymous said...

Exactly. The government plan is not just another choice in the mix to choose from. It is set up to become the only choice. Nothing will be able to effectively compete with it.

Freedom of choice will inevitably disappear.

Brandon said...

The government has an ablity that no private company does, raise taxes and through money at the problem. As for UPS they focus alot more on Packages. When was the last time you used UPS to mail a letter?

Anonymous said...

"When was the last time you used UPS to mail a letter?"

I use the US Post Office to mail packages almost exclusively. I can get a label online, and put the package out front and it'll be picked up the next day. Those incompetent bastards. Try that with ups and they'll charge like 5-10 bucks I think.

Anonymous said...

Insurance companies suck. Our high health costs and poor results should be self evident to the sucking fact. Do you all live on Mars?

Anonymous said...

I think anon is channeling Ross Perot. "I hear a large sucking sound"

Brandon said...

"Insurance companies suck"

Why do you think the problem is insurance companies? I have already shown you that very little of health care costs come from insurance companies. They simply distribute the costs around. The costs come from health care providers.

Anonymous said...

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html#ixzz0Mt1qWsUv

Brandon, maybe you don't have much now. One day you might. And you won't want to lose it all to an insurance company that found a loop hole.

Brandon said...

"Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds"

Nice irrelevant point! The medical bill has many parts. Including administration fees and health care provider costs. Obama care doesnt change anything except for administration fees for the insurance company. So how does this save money? It doesnt, it just makes someone else pay for your medical insurance. How does this change our ranking on the WHO study for cost of medical coverage. It doesnt, we still spend almost the exact same amount.

Anonymous said...

He's the king of irrelevant points.

Anonymous said...

What about Japan, Germany, and France? Why do they have better care on all levels, at half the cost as the US? Just spin I suppose.

Anonymous said...

Why do you cons hate freedom? Why can't we have free choice? Why do you want to tell me what to do? I want the choice of government or non profit health care. The government or non profit will also probably pay for the poor. So your incompetent insurance companies will have an advantage.

Anonymous said...

Ask the doctors who they prefer dealing with, Medicare or insurance companies. Ask hospitals.

Anonymous said...

LOL, "Why do you cons hate freedom?"

What part of "this takes away freedom of choice" do you not understand?

This will remove free choice. Of course, you haven't read it, so you wouldn't know.

Get it through your head: The government's plan will be the ONLY choice. You'll have your government telling you what to do.

So -- Why do you libs hate freedom?

Anonymous said...

Ok, what about schools? The government had a mostly complete monopoly on them. Now you can pretty much do what you want with your kids education, correct? And we've seen what a great positive difference that's made.

Anonymous said...

No thanks to the government for that!

And speaking of the government-run public school system, are you unaware of the fact that they are poorly run, underfunded, underpaid, overcrowded (35+ kids per class in many districts), with more and more B.S. curriculum shoved down the teacher's throats every year as an "addition" (usually with none, or not enough of the existing programs removed in order to provide the time for the new stuff), and overblown bureaucracy all the way up to the Sec. Of Education, and the tenure system guaranteeing employment for even the worst, laziest, incompetent faculty members.

Yeah, I certainly want my health care system to emulate that!

Brandon said...

"What about Japan, Germany, and France? Why do they have better care on all levels, at half the cost as the US? Just spin I suppose."

-WRONG! NOT ALL LEVELS.

As I said before, the United States is ranked "#1 IN THE WORLD FOR RESPONSIVENESS" That is according to the same source you are using to say the U.S. is ranked 37th in overall health care performance.

What would you rather have, higher costs and live to complain or lower costs and die waiting for treatment?

Reaper said...

"What would you rather have, higher costs and live to complain or lower costs and die waiting for treatment?"

No I want the lowest infant mortality rate in the world, the longest life span, and at half the cost of the US, like Japan. I'm willing to wait for care. Go tell the Japanese they should be dying in droves, waiting on the incompetent government to provide their health services. I think someone forgot to tell them.

Reaper said...

"According to a recent report, the United States has $480 billion in excess spending each year in comparison to Western European nations that have universal health insurance coverage. The costs are mainly associated with excess administrative costs and poorer quality of care"

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Cons, please note I am not getting these numbers from the insurance companies. Only an idiot would do that.

Brandon said...

"No I want the lowest infant mortality rate in the world, the longest life span, and at half the cost of the US, like Japan."

Under Obama care, what is going to change that would increace life span or lower infant mortality rate? The cost of care to the individual will go down in the premium. But they will start setting pay for doctors and cutting cost along those lines. Next you will have health care providers who feel under paid. Future generations will lose interest in being doctors and then you will have shortages of doctors like the rest of the world.

Reaper said...

Most doctors support national health insurance, new study shows.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Are you going to say that docs are expecting the same exact pay under national health care as they do now? Do you think doctors are so dumb that they don't know that in exchange for not having to screw with insurance companies, their pay will come down? Doctors hate insurance companies. They and hospitals love Medicaid. JC.

Reaper said...

For all that do not realize it, Reaper used to be the good Anonymous.

Anonymous said...

"Most doctors support national health insurance, new study shows."

That's not what the study shows at all. Nowhere in that article does it say that "most doctors support national health insurance."

The article is also riddled with a lot of "experts agree" phrases, without defining who these "experts" are. "Policymakers and government officials agree" -- uh huh. Who? The liberal ones? Of course they would agree with each other.

"But they disagree on the best ways to address rapidly escalating health spending and health insurance premiums. Some favor price controls and imposing strict budgets on health care spending. Others believe free market competition is the best way to solve the problems." Read that again. Some favor price controls and imposing strict budgets (neither of which would be implemented by Obamacare -- and all that this administration and Congress has done is spend spend spend like there is no tomorrow), and some believe free market competition is the answer (which Obamacare would quash completely).

Neither of those options supports an expensive socialist health care plan.

Reaper said...

"Most doctors support national health insurance, new study shows.

That's not what the study shows at all. Nowhere in that article does it say that "most doctors support national health insurance."

JC, that's the title of the Gd article.

"Reflecting a shift in thinking over the past five years among U.S. physicians, a new study shows a solid majority of doctors — 59 percent — now supports national health insurance."

Obama is not even proposing a universal nationally run program like the French and Japanese. He's proposing a program that will cost 150 billion. Competition. Keep insurance honest, which their not. And don't give me cost overrun crap, or I will bring up W and his GD Iraq war that was supposed to cost 50 billion, very, very outside maximum of 200 billion, and will probably be 3 trillion when all is said and done. You don't want me to go there (like I just did; trying to save evil from pointing out the obvious :-))

Anonymous said...

What are you talking about?

The article's title is: "Health Insurance Costs"
Subtitle: "Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance and Health Care"

And nowhere in the article is your quote, nor does it mention or even imply that 59% of doctors support national health insurance. Nor is the number "59" even present on the page, anywhere, in any context.

Reaper said...

JC Reaper, aka The Good Anonymous, is dumb.

Here's the correct link.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/march/most_doctors_support.php

Don't ding Reaper to hard on the source url (pnhp).

Hey anon, try the google member deal. You don't have to create a blog, or a real google account, just ignore all that stuff. You can add blog later. It's easier to post, plus you get notified of updates to this stuff.

I'm going to post a pic of my weapon to thwart evil cons (in case they have a revolt led by Sarah or Chuck the Norris, and I have to defend the USA as called for by the second amendment.)

Anonymous said...

Uh huh. So one study, done way back in March 2008, with a sampling of 2193 doctors, asking them simply if, "in principle," they would support or oppose legislation to establish national health care insurance (as a general question, not defining any details of what that legislation may entail), came up with a 59% "somewhat support" to "strongly support" percentage.

This poll was done before the Obamacare plan even existed. There is no indication that the same percentage of those 2193 doctors would support that specific plan.

Meanwhile, the A.M.A., 250,000 members strong, opposes Obama's plan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/politics/11health.html

Most important of all, though, is not what the doctors want -- it is what the American people want. A Washington Post/ABC poll conducted in June 2009 found that 83% of those polled are satisfied with their current insurance.

Reaper said...

"A Washington Post/ABC poll conducted in June 2009 found that 83% of those polled are satisfied with their current insurance."

Then those polled should not mind another choice, which they don't have to choose. Freedom. Why do you cons hate freedom so much?

Anonymous said...

LMAO! "Why do you hate freedom so much?" Someone stop this endless tape loop!

Once again: You must be the one who hates freedom, because this plan will take away freedoms. If you don't know that, then you ignorant of its details.

Freedom of choice? Just another choice? You are so naive. There will BE no other choice. As the plan is now written, people will eventually have NO choice but to choose Obamacare. Spelled out on page 16 -- or have you still not read it?

"The individual (private) health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of the year the legislation becomes law."

Of course, Obama and Pelosi conveniently leave that part out of their numerous pep talks on the subject. If you are a new participant, you will not have any choice other than the government-run plan. No freedom of choice. They obviously hate freedom.

All new customers going to the Obama plan means no new customers for private insurance companies, which means they will inevitably be put out of business. They won't be able to compete with the government's forcing everyone to be in its plan.

And yet another freedom is destroyed.

The government needs to get the f*ck out of my life choices.

Brandon said...

Obama care offers no competition, its a rigged fight that the free market can not compete with.

NOTE TO CJP AND REAPER

"Doctors hate insurance companies. They and hospitals love Medicaid. JC."
-Reaper

DOCTORS HATE MEDICARE AND MEDICAID!

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html?_r=1&em

Maybe you would belive a liberal news paper such as the NEW YORK TIME. They report that doctors are opting out of medicare because reimbursement rates are too low and the paperwork is too much of a hassle.

What is going to be different under Obama care? NOTHING!

"Are you going to say that docs are expecting the same exact pay under national health care as they do now?"
-Reaper

YES, they do and they also want raises every now and again. What would you do if you knew you were going to take a pay cut and most likely never get a raise? I would find another job so I could live the American dream.

Reaper said...

"The individual (private) health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of the year the legislation becomes law."

Who else is talking about this? What other reputable news source?

Reaper said...

Thanks Brandon, I sense growth occurring, your eyes opening, as your news sources expand.

With Medigap and additional payment doctors take the refused patients in that article.

Question: Once patients can't find anyone to take their MediCare what do they do? Guess they have to buy regular insurance.

Brandon,what do you think your dear, dear, insurance companies, will charge someone 75 years old?

Brandon, the purse strings are tightening. Medicare will soon have to raise their payments, or come up with something else (innovate).

The great innovative, creative, imaginative insurance companies have shown their total incompetence by their inability to rein in costs. Now its the governments turn. Baaaa haaaaa haaaaaa, haaaa.

Reaper said...

CONS HATE FREEDOM, LET US COUNT THE WAYS:

1) Cons don't like women deciding what to do with their own bodies. They are not pro choice.

2) Cons consistently vote for legislation that denies same sex marriage and rights.

3) Cons force you through laws, to not ingest or inhale certain chemical compounds, else suffer serious prison time. (We all know cons love their liberty almost as much as they love their prisons.)

4) Cons love their children's schools, and force non child compliant adults to also pay for same said schools.

5) Cons love their military more than all common sense deems adequate. They enjoy using the military to enforce their version of freedom on others. (Why else would we be spending more than the rest of the world combined? Hope I don't get dinged on that one. Plus a decent war is just flat good for business.)

6) Cons love their police, as they keep those pesky minorities in line. (Okay maybe I'm stretching it a little on this one, but you cons did admit the only good union is the police union)

7) Cons love denying people the ability to sue their beloved, benevolent, and righteous companies.

8) Cons want to deny the people a choice of government insurance under the guise that it's forcing us to move away from the beloved insurance companies. The cons want to protect us, from our own selves, because the know they are right in all things.

In short, cons love their freedom, as long as it's their version of freedom. And of course they know best about freedom, and in all other things, as the last eight years have shown. Baaaa, haaaa, haaaa...., cough, cough.

Anonymous said...

Going off on another tangent, I see. Silly me, I thought we were talking about the health care plan.

Typical response from you. If you can't effectively argue the topic at hand, then you take the shotgun approach.

*cough cough*

Reaper said...

"And yet another freedom is destroyed.

The government needs to get the f*ck out of my life choices."

JC Evil, how the fk was I not on point when you mention freedom and choices?

I admit I partake, quite substantially, in the libations, but only after 12 pm. Anon, I'm not passing judgment on you, but do you drink in the AM?

I like you Anon, your one of my favorite nuts :-)

Anonymous said...

Repear, you are the one who keeps parroting "Don't you want more freedom? Why do cons hate freedom so much?"

Thus, prompting me to respond (over and over again...sigh) that the healthcare plan will limit freedoms.

Of course, then you respond with a bunch of "cons hate freedoms" stuff again, none of which has anything to do with the healthcare plan.

Anonymous said...

Oops, I fat-fingered your name. "Reaper."

Brandon said...

"The great innovative, creative, imaginative insurance companies have shown their total incompetence by their inability to rein in costs. Now its the governments turn. Baaaa haaaaa haaaaaa, haaaa."
-Reaper

The government has already had its turn, its called medicare and medicaid. Wouldnt you say Obamacare is nothing more than an expansion of these programs? Why expand on two programs that are as bad as these two? The only solution the government will ever come up with is through more money at it. Which will cost the productive members of our society more in taxes.

Brandon said...

Why do we have to pass a national health care plan? Why cant we leave it up to the individual states to pass their own health care reform? Sit back and watch to see which ones work the best.

Reaper said...

JC Brandon, the average age of Medicare participant is what? Maybe 70? You're young so you may not know, that as you get older, you have many, many, many more health problems. JC Brandon, the gd regular health care policy on someone old, has got to run 25k per year.

But, we know how much insurance companies care so you are not apparently worried about it.

Maybe your right. Maybe you and the other cons should just take care of your own. I can live with that Brandon, so please opt out of government health care, and have your parents (when they get old) opt out also. Please feel free to pay the dear, sweet insurance companies whatever they want. That's your right.

After all, I believe in freedom

CJP said...

Well said, Reaper. You're tight on the money with your latest comment.

Reaper said...

"Why do we have to pass a national health care plan? Why cant we leave it up to the individual states to pass their own health care reform? Sit back and watch to see which ones work the best."

----

JC Brandon, I agree with you. Fking insurance companies have pretty much proved worthless, let's give the states a crack at it. Ok, upon second thought, I really like it; Federal choice of health insurance, state choice of health insurance, and dearly beloved insurance company choice of health insurance. GD Brandon, that's a wonderful sense there.

Freedom of choice, don't ye just love it?

Brandon said...

Reaper

Obamacare is designed to get everyone insured in this country, correct?

Less than 10% of Americans dont have health insurance.

You compaint is that it costs to much for the elderly to purchase insurance, correct?

98% of the uninsured are between the ages of 0-65. So why cant they go get insurance?

source: http://www.ofm.wa.gov/shpo/datasources/briefing01.pdf

Brandon said...

Reaper

NO federal coverage, only state coverage. That way if you live in Oregon and you dont like the coverage you can move to another state. That is competition among states. You cant have a federal coverage that you cant hide from.

Were you the one saying you had double coverage?

Reaper said...

GD Brandon, why do you hate freedom so much?

Let's allow the federal government have insurance coverage in addition to states. (Some states don't have money.) Then let the states and dearly beloved private insurance compete against federal insurance.

Competition, you have to love it.

Brandon said...

NO, because these are all paid for with tax dollars! I want the choice to choose what state I want to live in. How will they differ under a nation plan? When you can have up to 50 different plans plus the private insurance compainies, you have plenty of choices. If you want the government to pay for your insurance, then move to Maryland or Canada.

Reaper said...

"When you can have up to 50 different plans plus the private insurance compainies, you have plenty of choices."

----

GD Brandon, in your idealist world, what you say sounds fine. But, when you work for a company, you don't usually have a choice on insurance, and it's hard to just move to another state because of a bad policy. (plus you really don't know you have a bad policy until it's too late)

JC why do you all hate freedom so much? Leave me the fk alone to choose a fed level health care plan. Cut the GD defense to pay for it.

Brandon said...

Then leave me alone and dont ask me to pay for your coverage!

Were you the one who said you had to different policies?

Reaper said...

"Then leave me alone and dont ask me to pay for your coverage! Were you the one who said you had to different policies?"

-----

Yes Brandon I will pay for my own federal coverage as all will most participants, to varying degrees. Give me the money I am paying on my 2 policies and I will give that to the fed government. I know that to my wifes policy, I am contributing 250 per month, which is probably equal to 500 a month, as no one can insure me for 250 per month (the reduction is just part of the package deal.) My client, as a perk, is paying my second policy, which he tells me costs 500 per month. For 1k (ok 750 if your a nitt picker) per month, I am pretty sure I can find Cadillac insurance (for my age, my weight, history on and on), if I was given the choice. I am not give the choice.

Instead, I am quite sure, even with double coverage, I will have a fight to the fiscal death with the insurance companies. And I will fight (in your all's hated court of justice) that I should not have to pay a penny, considering my reasonableness of having 2 policies.

Brandon, I agree with you. If you don't want your parents enrolled in Medicare, you should help them out and enroll them in your private health care.

I love freedom and respect your right to choose.

Brandon said...

"Yes Brandon I will pay for my own federal coverage as all will most participants, to varying degrees"
-Reaper

You wont pay for your own coverage as long as it cost tax payers anything. $100 billion dollars a year your not going to pay!

As for the double coverage, I would suggest you drop one of them. You will spend every cent fighting for either one to pay anything. They will be pointing the finger at the other company.

How would you expect to get out of it without paying one cent? You dont have a deductable?

Anonymous said...

One thing's for sure. If this health care plan passes, then House Resolution 615 needs to pass, too.

Reaper said...

"You wont pay for your own coverage as long as it cost tax payers anything. $100 billion dollars a year your not going to pay!"

---

I last heard 150 billion per year.

Cut defense (==650 billion per year), and the savings in efficiency (as 150+ insurance companies with different rules and paper work can not be cheap.) Thats why its hard to believe Medicaid, with one form, one way of doing paper work, is harder for doctors to accept than 150+ different insurance companies.

---

"As for the double coverage, I would suggest you drop one of them. You will spend every cent fighting for either one to pay anything. They will be pointing the finger at the other company."

---

Yep Brandon, I am going to be what in legal terms they call the white night. It may cost me money, but it will set a precedent (new case law,((new rule of law)), and I will sue.

---

How would you expect to get out of it without paying one cent? You dont have a deductable?

---

Why should I have to pay anything, as each company should have to pay the (relative) whole amount, and the whole should cover my entire costs, including deductible (and they should still come out ahead as they would of compared to insuring me individually).

But alas dear Brandon, I know we do not agree on the courts, and their adjudicating justice on the dear insurance companies, or any other company, as you know how benevolent and loving all companies are.

But again, you don't have to use the courts to address any grievance Brandon, as we have freedom in this country.

Why do you all hate freedom so much?

Brandon said...

"Yep Brandon, I am going to be what in legal terms they call the white night. It may cost me money, but it will set a precedent (new case law,((new rule of law)), and I will sue."
-Reaper

You have no case! Everything is spelled out in your contract you signed when you got your coverage. What is your complaint?

Why should a insurance company pay 100% of your bills? What would prevent people from over using the insurance and further driving cost up?

When are you going to attack auto insurance? It seems you would have all the same complaints about them.

You still didnt address the fact you will spend alot of time and money fighting to get one company to cover your bills. Get rid of one of them and save yourself a few hundred dollars a month.

Anonymous said...

"Why do you all hate freedom so much?"

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh holy crap that is getting annoying. Not to mention baseless.

Reaper said...

"You have no case! Everything is spelled out in your contract you signed when you got your coverage. What is your complaint?"

JC Brandon, ..., where do I begin? Ok, lets put it this way; you dont know what you have with insurance until it's too late. For example, recently on the news, 2 cases came up. One where a doctor mistakenly put the applicants body weight down wrong on the insurance form, then a large medical cost occurred, and the insurance company said that wrong information was reason for denial of claim.

Second case, a woman did not include on her insurance form that she used a particular acne medication, so she was denied major care for that omission. On and on. You don't know about this stuff until its too late. GD Brandon, I have 10 credit cards, maybe 15, health insurance, car insurance, property insurance, personal liability insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, and probably a few others. You think I read all that shit, every time they send me something in the GD mail?

Reaper said...

"Why do you all hate freedom so much?"

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh holy crap that is getting annoying. Not to mention baseless."

And why don't I have the freedom to not pay property taxes that are used for public eduction (50 percent of my property tax). Why?

You all don't want to pay for my one request, government medical care such as Medicare.

I want my freedom. I don't want to pay thousands and thousands per year on gd kids schooling.

I want to be FREE.(just mocking you all, but all I say about me is factually true)

Brandon said...

"GD Brandon, I have 10 credit cards, maybe 15, health insurance, car insurance, property insurance, personal liability insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, and probably a few others. You think I read all that shit, every time they send me something in the GD mail?"
-Reaper

YES, you expect an insurance company to pay millions of dollar when you get sick, but your to lazy to read your policy information.

As for you legal case, you expect that your going to be the rare exception that gets a case like that? You will never get out of paying your deductables and co pays. If is you end of the deal!

WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU HAVE 10-15 credit cards. Cant you pay for anything with cash? I have zero credit cards and one debit card. My life is alot simpler without them. Try it some time!

Why dont you drop one insurance company?

Reaper said...

"WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU HAVE 10-15 credit cards."

Brandon, buddy .... Where do I begin. Well lets start with, I could come up with 250k on said credit cards, theoretically, tomorrow. I owe nothing but a monthly balance on all,(which I pay off monthly). I run about 12k per month on credit cards (I could be lying), I really don't know, as my wife pays it all, and I believe her. I am 99 percent sure I have no credit card debt. (I hope she's not lying to me).

Never mind about paying 2 insurance companies, I could be wrong about that working out. Everything is in flux, as you may know and laws change, and I shouldn't have to keep up with the changing laws.

JC, Brando, dear buddy, what would you do if you lost your job? Go live with mom and dad? I'm more worried about my mom and dad coming to live with me.

Reaper said...

Brandon Buddy, this is fer you:

---

The heart is a bloom
Shoots up through the stony ground
There's no room
No space to rent in this town

You're out of luck
And the reason that you had to care
The traffic is stuck
And you're not moving anywhere

You thought you'd found a friend
To take you out of this place
Someone you could lend a hand
In return for grace

It's a beautiful day
Sky falls, you feel like
It's a beautiful day
Don't let it get away

You're on the road
But you've got no destination
You're in the mud
In the maze of her imagination

You love this town
Even if that doesn't ring true
You've been all over
And it's been all over you

It's a beautiful day
Don't let it get away
It's a beautiful day

Touch me
Take me to that other place
Teach me
I know I'm not a hopeless case

See the world in green and blue
See China right in front of you
See the canyons broken by cloud
See the tuna fleets clearing the sea out
See the Bedouin fires at night
See the oil fields at first light
And see the bird with a leaf in her mouth
After the flood all the colors came out

It was a beautiful day
Don't let it get away
Beautiful day

Touch me
Take me to that other place
Reach me
I know I'm not a hopeless case

What you don't have you don't need it now
What you don't know you can feel it somehow
What you don't have you don't need it now
Don't need it now
Was a beautiful day

----

Bono, is a genius. Sorry you hate him so much.

Brandon said...

If I lost my job I would go look for another job. I have no debt and alot of savings. I live a cheap lifestyle, so I could live awhile without a job. But I enjoy working and earning money.

If you dont like paying property tax then vote against it! It is alot easier to do something about a tax that is local then on a federal level. What one person needs or wants on the east coast is different from the west coast. Wouldnt you agree? You can easily tie that back to health insurance.

Anonymous said...

How about this, in Obama's own words: There will be a "transition process" in which private employer-provided insurance will eventually be eliminated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

See if y'all can run this one through the spin cycle and tell me what Obama "really meant" when he said that.

He tends to say "let me be clear" quite a bit. Well, this sounded pretty direct and clear to me.

Reaper said...

"transition process"

---

Wish Obama would of been a little more subtle. But that's what's so great about progressives, they're open to change. So, if government health care doesn't work out, if our care is not as good as the Japanese, as good as the Germans, as good as the French, then we can always go back to the crappy old insurance companies.

Obama's still adamantly insisting that we'll have a choice. And 20 years from now is a long time, and open to lots of, hear goes that nasty word again, change.

Anonymous said...

You missed the point. He is saying that this ultimate goal is to eliminate private employer-provided health care within 10-20 years.

Whether that actually comes to pass or not, after he is out of office, is irrelevant in this context. The important point is that he said very clearly that this is his goal.

Reaper said...

Brandon, that's great and admirable that you're self reliant. But, bad stuff can happen to good people.

And with the cons zealotry, promoting family and kids, denying sex education, recommending abstinence, a young couple that has many kids and then meets misfortune, maybe it's not all there fault. Why shouldn't the nutty cons have to help pay for the kids they promoted?

Reaper said...

"You missed the point. He is saying that this ultimate goal is to eliminate private employer-provided health care within 10-20 years."

-----

He also stated it's he's adamantly in favor of choice. Our country will never eliminate health care choice completely. It's not in our makeup (couldn't think of a better word). We are not heading to a socialist/communist state. Every developed nation on the planet has national health care, don't they? Are we the only non socialist developed nation on the planet?

You will always have some kind of choice in the US.

Reaper said...

Those gd NY Times commie bastards. Why can't they be more fair and balanced like Faux News?

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200906120010

Brandon said...

REAPER

You call yourself a progressive and that progressives live, learn and then move on.

What more do you need to know about government run programs? SS, medicare and medcaid are all going bankrupt. What is going to be different about this program?

Brandon said...

80% of those with insurance rate their own coverage as good or excellent. Looks like most people are pretty happy with their insurance company.

Forty-eight percent (48%) of U.S. voters now rate the U.S. health care system as good or excellent. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that just 19% rate it as poor.

Source:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/confidence_in_u_s_health_care_system_has_grown_in_recent_months

Reaper said...

"SS, medicare and medcaid are all going bankrupt."

JC, they are not going bankrupt because of incompetent government management, they are going bankrupt because of whom they are dealing with. The old and the poor.

Reaper said...

Ok Brandon, my major beef is with my wife's insurance company (a large company as far as I know), a company rated dead last by consumer reports. Dead last (positive about it) out of over a hundred (could be more) plus as I remember it. So, definitely, my view is tainted by that experience over the last years.

But my new and second insurance company, so far has been pretty bad also. It took my foot doctor 6 months to get paid. They paid the doctor and then pulled the payment for some gd reason. Total bill about 750.00 and they pulled around 500.00 back. I want to see them rot in hell :-). They know what they are doing.

Reaper said...

Comon Brandon, how can multiple governments (France, Germany, Japan,etc) provide much better health care at half the cost? Why can't your great insurance companies reduce costs? Haven't they had enough time to prove their worth?

There are 1600 different insurance companies in Chicago alone. All with different forms. The average doctor needs to hire 3 people to sort through and re send all the gd insurance forms (including medicare I presume). It's stated that the insurance company administrative cost alone is 300-400 billion per year, which doesn't even include the doctors admin costs, nor include the cost of the people that the companies denied. You don't want to be bankrupted by these weaselly insurance companies.

Reaper said...

Anon and Brandon, why aren't all the non public schools doing so much better than the public schools? You factor out the minorities in public schools and the non public aren't doing much better or in the Christians schools actually doing worse(I wonder why the Christian schools are behind?). Comon. Plus again, other nations are beating us across the board with their education systems (probably not college's, I'm not sure). Get over it. I agree government sucks in lots of things, but in the really, really, big programs they seem to be the most efficient (health care and education to name 2) JC.

Anonymous said...

He also stated it's he's adamantly in favor of choice.

Yeah, and the two statements are mutually exclusive. So the question becomes, which do you believe?

Anonymous said...

I'm not an expert on all of the inside workings of private schools vs. public ones (some of my relatives would be better at that), but I think one of the problems is that teachers are simply too low-paid for what they do. Society has that backwards. It's one of the most important jobs in our society, and we pay most of them peanuts.

Brandon said...

"Comon Brandon, how can multiple governments (France, Germany, Japan,etc) provide much better health care at half the cost? Why can't your great insurance companies reduce costs? Haven't they had enough time to prove their worth?"
-Reaper

Your not accounting for us being #1 in responsiveness and a leader in new tech.

Reaper said...

"Your not accounting for us being #1 in responsiveness and a leader in new tech."

-----

Ok, let's just agree on freedom. I want the freedom to choose a government plan and pay half what you do in exchange for less responsiveness and less new tech. Wait a sec, benevolent insurance companies virtually never pay for new tech that isn't proven. Tried to pull a fast one eh?

Brandon said...

Also you continue to state that Japan has a higher life expectancy and ect. How would we live longer if Obama takes over health insurance?

"Ok, let's just agree on freedom. I want the freedom to choose a government plan and pay half what you do..."
-Reaper

What happends to my freedom to choose an insurance that cost more and is #1 in responsiveness? Why do you have freedom?

The free market can not compete with the government. You know those guys who rob tax dollars from the economy and then when that doesnt work they just print some more!

Reaper said...

"The free market can not compete with the government. You know those guys who rob tax dollars from the economy and then when that doesnt work they just print some more!"

-----

Make gov plan compete. Don't let gov print and give it dollars. The post office has to raise stamp prices, not just get more free money.