Tracy said...
"Thank you! As a USAmerican who believes that every person in my country should have access to affordable health care, I applaud your words. It isn't so much conservatism that is fueling the fight against health reform in this country; it is pure, obscene greed. The health insurance companies make billions in profits, and they pay politicians to fight for the shamefully wrong status quo. Some politicians do the right thing; the others take the money happily and spread lies to keep the money coming.
I don't have health insurance, and I can't afford it. If the conservatives manage to block me from getting it, and then come back into power, I will no longer feel like a citizen of this country...because obviously, to them, I and my life do not matter."
Thank you for your comment, Tracy. Very well said. I think your words should be seen by everyone, so I have put them up here as a separate post of their own.
CJP
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184 comments:
Where does Tracy live? Is there a place in this country where a hospital will not take care of you?
The House representatives who voted "nay" on health care got 15% more in $$ than the "yea" votes.
Each House representative got abt. 470.000.00 from the health industries. Forgot if this figure was for the nay or yea sayers.
Each member of the Senate got abt. $1,460.000.00 from health care industries.
The above from CNN, Rick Sanchez.
It's all about greed as the article says and re-elections.
Hope the Bill will survive in the Senate.
Anon2
"It's all about greed as the article says and re-elections."
-Anonymous
So why dont we reform political contributions?
"I don't have health insurance, and I can't afford it."
-Tracy
Why the hell not??? I think you cant afford not to have it!!! Shop around and I bet you will find something out there you can use.
Everyone-
Finally made it home to Washington State! Its nice to see all the keys on the keyboard, in the right places.
"I don't have health insurance, and I can't afford it."
-Tracy
Brandon said...
"Why the hell not??? I think you cant afford not to have it!!! Shop around and I bet you will find something out there you can use."
Guess Brandon knows Tracy's financial situation better than Tracy.
Just accept the reality/fact that there are really poor people and middle class living in the USA who can't afford health care.
Europe and other developed self-respecting industrialized and civilized countries have health care for it's citizens, except for the USA. What a comfort to know that eh?
I recommend you to watch the documentary "Sicko".
Americans DID receive free Cuban health care in that country while they were refused health care in Gitmo.
Anon2
"Americans DID receive free Cuban health care in that country while they were refused health care in Gitmo."
Yes, we should all live like the citizens of Cuba. That is the answer!!!!!
Anon2 said...
"Americans DID receive free Cuban health care in that country while they were refused health care in Gitmo."
In addition to the above, the terrorists at Gitmo get FREE health care. That's in case you didn't know.
Don't blame your government for this. It's the people that choose their government. Oh boy, did you ever select a "good" president in 2000. LOL (Lots Of Legacies)
Anon2
Hi Tracy, cons kind of suck sometimes, or the far right cons most of the time. But you live here so you know this.
I want health insurance I can trust. I don't want bankruptcy because my insurance finds some loophole.
Yes, yes. The United States of Cuba. You are a genius anon 2 or whatever. I find that anonymous' are meaningless to me.
"Don't blame your government for this. It's the people that choose their government. Oh boy, did you ever select a "good" president in 2000. LOL "
--
GD Anon2, you are dead on. I also blame the voters and not w, as w did exactly what he said he was going to do, to disastrous affect.
Did Obama say he was taking the country into socialism? Did he say he was going to max the US credit to oblivion? Did he say he was going to max it even more than that? Did he say he was going to be weak on terrorism? NO...HE RAN IN THE MIDDLE!!! Yes we are suckers for believing him!!
"Did he say he was going to be weak on terrorism? "
--
JFC, HOTR what are you talking about above?
Appeases the Russians, Iranians and enemies of the US. He doesn't even call this idiot that killed 13 army people a terrorist!! Even with all the proof that he had contact with al queda. He says he was stressed out. LOL. He looks weak and scared. Poor little Obama. Great leader.
HOTR said:...
"Did Obama say he was taking the country into socialism?"
You don't even know in the good ole US of what socialism really is about huh? All you really know is what some rabble rousers keep on hammering on Obama and socialism. These rabble rousers don't know it either but it SOUNDS good to them.
Didn't you know that your Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, schools, police etc. etc. are really socialism, didn't you know?
Anon2
You're right. Social security is falling apart. Reps tried to do something but dems stopped it. Medicaid and Medicare will soon collapes but dems say everything is good. Public schools for minorities are dominated by unions and suck. I don't know about police. We need some kind of order. Dems want the government in my life from the cradle to the grave.
By the way Anon, I think its disrespectful to CJP and the rest of us, whether lib or cons not to get a real name. There are too many of you and it only takes a few minutes of your life.
HOTR, you seem to think that any time the government gets involved in anything, then that constitutes Socialism. It's a far cry from Socialism.
Socialism a system is where the government owns all the means of production.
In capitalism, the government intervenes to provide needed services and to help equalize the playing field. Keeping the government totally out of the economic sphere, as Conservatives advocate, simply allows the rich to get richer and the poor to get screwed.
Incredibly, the areas which the government should stay out of -- people's' private lives -- are exactly where Conservatives want the government to get involved -- abortion, for example. Whether or not to have an abortion should be a private decision between a woman, her family, and her doctor. The government should have no say in the matter.
Yet, the very Conservatives who say they want the government to stay out of everything are the ones who are trying by law to restrict or eliminate a woman's right to an abortion. No wonder we believe that Conservatives are hypocrites.
Brandon, Tracy is not the only one who can't afford health insurance. 40 million Americans today don't have health insurance because they can't afford it, including many with full-time jobs. But you know the Conservative attitude towards everything -- I got mine, that's all I care about -- now you go get yours.
"HOTR, you seem to think that any time the government gets involved in anything, then that constitutes Socialism. It's a far cry from Socialism."
I don't think that at all. It's only when they inject themselves into every part of my life. CJP do you realize that healthcare bill will put some people in jail. Standard lib argument is "it's only in the house bill. It won't make it to senate"?!?!? WHAT THE FUCK IS IT DOING THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?! That my friend is the government looking down at you and saying I will take you out of the bedroom away from your family AND LOCK YOUR FUCKING ASS UP!!!
You leave very important INFORMATION that changes your whole argument!! WHY DO YOU PURPOSELY WITHHOLD THE FACT THAT SOMEONE COULD GO TO JAIL IF THEY DON'T PAY FOR THEIR OWN COVERAGE?!! For some reason you libs don't want people to know all the information!!
then incredibly you come with this fake ass argument of abortion!!!
"abortion, for example. Whether or not to have an abortion should be a private decision between a woman, her family, and her doctor. The government should have no say in the matter."
you're another blowhard that keeps trying to deflect every argument to the abortion issue. I got some news for you, I don't care if a woman gets an abortion.....I JUST DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT!!
But the funniest part of your bullshit is this:
"Incredibly, the areas which the government should stay out of -- people's' private lives -- are exactly where Conservatives want the government to get involved"
The government wants to control my bank (do you realize that 100% of school loans are done by the government), tell me what is appropriate for me to earn (you know that politicians with power will go after someone else every election..how long before they tell you how much you should earn), tamper with freedom of speech, change the health care insurance that I enjoy paying for right now and you want to tell me I should keep paying more taxes. WHY DO YOU WITHHOLD THE FACT THAT THE CBO CHIEF SAYS THE DEMOCRATS PROPOSALS LACK NECESSARY CONTROLS ON SPENDING!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071602242.html
All this deals directly WITH MY PRIVATE LIFE!!
You wait all night to finally write something and here's the best you can do!! Why don't use google every once in a while before you write crap!! Try proofreading it sometime!!
"Didn't you know that your Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, schools, police etc. etc. are really socialism, didn't you know?"
-Anon2
Yes and I hate everyone of those programs. They are all rip off to the American people!
" Keeping the government totally out of the economic sphere, as Conservatives advocate, simply allows the rich to get richer and the poor to get screwed"
-CJP
What do you hate the rich getting richer? Maybe they are getting rich because they are doing things right and the poor are getting more poor because they keep screwing up.
You just want to punish the rich for doing things right and reward those for doing things wrong!
I would really think you would believe in natural selection!
"Guess Brandon knows Tracy's financial situation better than Tracy.
Just accept the reality/fact that there are really poor people and middle class living in the USA who can't afford health care."
-Anonymous
Maybe you could let me know what the average uninsured American's life is like and why they dont have coverage!
Let me know when you wake up and realize that most Americans dont buy health insurance because they dont want to, not because they cant afford it! So why do we need to have a public option to fix a problem that could be fixed by people being responsible for themselves.
"Didn't you know that your Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, schools, police etc. etc. are really socialism, didn't you know?"
-Anon2
Brandon said:
Yes and I hate everyone of those programs. They are all rip off to the American people!
So get rid of the government, schools, police, fire department, libraries, Medicare, Medicaid, SS, prisons etc. etc. Return to the days of the Wild West, anarchy eh? Oh Boy..... it would be a real jungle out there in the USA, even more than it already is!!! They'd shoot each other like flies.
The people would cross the southern border like wild animals to look for a better life in Latin America.
Get real boy!!
Come to think of it, our Canadian border should be really enforced. LOL
Anon2
"So get rid of the government, schools, police, fire department, libraries, Medicare, Medicaid, SS, prisons etc. etc. Return to the days of the Wild West, anarchy eh? Oh Boy..... it would be a real jungle out there in the USA, even more than it already is!!! They'd shoot each other like flies."
Once again the genius astounds us with his stupid babble!!
Anon2, the cons love liberty almost as much as they love their prisons. They would never bet rid of prisons.
"Anon2, the cons love liberty almost as much as they love their prisons. They would never bet rid of prisons."
Another genius. Dems are the ones who want to lock up people for not having mandatory health care.
Cons know best about all things. Including when they are going to get sick.
Raygun you are the champion of generalization and insignificant comments that add nothing to the conversation.
HOTR, why aren't you rant raving mad about mandatory auto insurance? Do you own a car?
Because if I don't have a car then I don't need insurance. But since I do own a car then you should get your bills covered if I hit you with my car due to my negligence.
HOTR, what if I drive a BMW 735i and you total it? You expect me to take monthly payments for the rest of my life?
"HOTR, what if I drive a BMW 735i and you total it? You expect me to take monthly payments for the rest of my life?"
Raygun, do you even know how insurance works?!? My liability coverage will pay for your bodily injury AND property damage. Your lack of knowledge of the things you write about are amazing!!
But HOTR, what if you don't have insurance, or lets say one of the poor that cons despise so much does not have insurance, because from your viewpoint, insurance shouldn't be mandatory?
You are saying auto insurance should not be mandatory, correct?
"But HOTR, what if you don't have insurance, or lets say one of the poor that cons despise so much does not have insurance, because from your viewpoint, insurance shouldn't be mandatory?"
Then your full coverage would kick in and your car would be covered and your monthly payments taken care of.
"You are saying auto insurance should not be mandatory, correct?"
Raygun say something intelligent once in a while. Please surprise us. Auto insurance should not be mandatory if you don't own a car. It should be mandatory if you own a car and run the risk of harming someone.
"It should be mandatory if you own a car and run the risk of harming someone."
--
But HOTR, why shouldn't medical insurance be mandatory when a person could run up a 3 million dollar bill?
Because you choose to destroy the coverage I pay for. You want to raise my taxes to cover a small portion of the population. You want to give the responsibility to a government who has ruined every program they run. You want to do everything else but tell that same person to be responsible and get their own coverage. If they have assets to protect then they should do the responsible thing and cover it themselves. Why don't we try tort reform? Why don't we try to let all 1300 health insurance companies compete in all states? The facts are that alone would lower all premiums for everyone and make it more affordable to all.
"You want to do everything else but tell that same person to be responsible and get their own coverage. "
--
I don't trust them HOTR. Lots of people have con mentality, in that they think they know best, but in reality they don't. People think they won't get sick, then they do.
I can't believe you think we need mandatory auto insurance (when you own a car, geesh) but don't need mandatory health insurance.
"I can't believe you think we need mandatory auto insurance (when you own a car, geesh) but don't need mandatory health insurance."
It's a simple concept Raygun. I harm you due to my negligence then my companies pays to put you back whole. Your health doesn't affect me at all. Unless you add a beauracracy (spelling) that adds millions of new federal employees that will need to be paid a salary that will come from higher taxes.
"Your health doesn't affect me at all. "
--
Hugh? Who pays the doctors hospitals etc, when they treat someone who can't pay? We all pay HOTR, through higher medical costs. You seem a little contrary HOTR (most cons are) in saying we need mandatory auto insurance (when you own an auto, geesh, why do I even have to include this) but don't need mandatory health insurance? The individuals being harmed by others not having health insurance is everyone. Doctors, hospitals, people paying for any medical treatment. Everyone.
"We all pay HOTR, through higher medical costs."
Why don't we lower costs for medical equipment and medicines?
Try reading this slowly and tell me why dems want to costs so high?
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=congress+votes+to+lower+pharmaceutical+costs&page=1&qsrc=2106&dm=all&ab=4&title=Senators+vote+down+plan+to+cut+drug+costs+-+TheHill.com&u=http%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fhomenews%2Fsenate%2F60197-senators-reject-proposal-to-lower-drug-costs&sg=eHGxHs1EBpk33vLkJ3nGPThjQN9v3TIPiyq5sUPey14%3D&tsp=1257899127653
Why don't we try tort reform? No...libs answer to everything is the government.
Why don't we try tort reform? No...libs answer to everything is the government.
You steering us yourself away from answering the question of mandatory auto insurance and no mandatory health insurance. Whats the difference again?
Out to blow some leaves around.
HOTR, I don't look at utube links, Faux News links, and only Wikipedia for quick info that doesn't have to be accurate.
Ooops, I see your ask link is not what I thought and will look at it.
Raygun your link of auto insurance to health insurance is silly but I'll play your game. Why is it that I can choose from hundreds of auto insurance companies and I only can choose from 4 health insurers in my state? Hundreds of auto insurance companies have lowered the prices of auto coverage. Why can't we do that with health insurance?
Wikipedia? You mean the site where I can change any information that I don't think is appropriate? Yeah..that's credible.
Comon HOTR, why make auto insurance mandatory and not health insurance? You want people to be responsible but not enforce responsibility?
I should be responsible if I harm you. I shouldn't be responsible if you do harm to yourself.
Please address the fact that competition of 1300 companies would make coverage cheaper. Why don't we do that?
JC Anon2, did you cross the border and pea in HOTR's corn flakes this am?
"I should be responsible if I harm you"
--
But HOTR, if you don't buy medical insurance then get sick, you are harming me, financially, by raising my costs.
"JC Anon2, did you cross the border and pea in HOTR's corn flakes this am?"
Oh I'm sorry Raygun. I didn't know this question would stump you. lol
"Please address the fact that competition of 1300 companies would make coverage cheaper. Why don't we do that?"
"But HOTR, if you don't buy medical insurance then get sick, you are harming me, financially, by raising my costs."
Why don't we lower costs? Liberals want to ignore the fact that tort reform and lower medicines and equipment costs will save all of us money. Isn't it logical to you that adding the government to the equation will only raise health costs? Why do you ignore the CBO saying that costs will go out of control? Tell me why you ignore that. Tell me why you think the government can handle health care when they can't even handle giving out shots for the swine flu. Swine flu shots they can't handle but they'll do great with the massive health care overhaul!! Gotta love you libs. You can ignore the most important things.
Why don't you ask these democrats in the house why they voted against the health care bill? Don't take my word for this miserable failure of a bill. Ask your own people about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/08/us/politics/1108-health-care-vote.html
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/11/hannity-to-address-protest-video-questions-tonight/?hp
--
Faux News caught flat out lying again.
HOTR, it truly amazes me how you cons can be so selective when telling others what to do. You tell others they have to have auto insurance, you can't do drugs, you have no right to die with dignity, no abortions, no same sex marriage, on and on, but you stop at telling people that they must be responsible and purchase health insurance?
"Baier quoted from Politico's write up on the banquet which commented on the not-so-hidden subtext of Palin's speech: "Unsaid but implied was that the new Democratic White House was behind such a move to secularize the nation's currency." Baier added: "In actuality the coin's design was commissioned in 2005, when Republicans controlled congress, and then was approved by then President Bush."
--
She has to be one of the GD dumbest humans on earth.
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/11/hannity-to-address-protest-video-questions-tonight/?hp
Good for John Stewart!! I hate misleading information!! NOW PLEASE ADDRESS THE LINK I POSTED SHOWING DEMOCRATS WILLFULLY KEEPING MEDICAL COSTS HIGH!!
"HOTR, it truly amazes me how you cons can be so selective when telling others what to do. You tell others they have to have auto insurance, you can't do drugs, you have no right to die with dignity, no abortions, no same sex marriage, on and on, but you stop at telling people that they must be responsible and purchase health insurance?"
How silly Raygun. I don't care if you do drugs, get abortions, commit suicide, marry gay people or anything else. Do it all you want and enjoy yourself for all I care. We have homeowners insurance. Does that mean we should all have mandatory home insurance? We have life insurance. Does that mean we should all have mandatory life insurance? Answer that for me.
"How silly Raygun. I don't care if you do drugs, get abortions, commit suicide, marry gay people or anything else."
HOTR, the people you vote for are all for telling others what to do.
"We have homeowners insurance. Does that mean we should all have mandatory home insurance? We have life insurance. Does that mean we should all have mandatory life insurance?"
Again HOTR, your losses in the above 2 examples affect nearly everyone 0. You not having health insurance affects everyone's costs.
JC HOTR, where do you work? I thought only government workers get off Veterans day anymore?
"Again HOTR, your losses in the above 2 examples affect nearly everyone 0. You not having health insurance affects everyone's costs."
This affects everyones health insurance costs but you keep ignoring it. Why don't you address this:
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=congress+votes+to+lower+pharmaceutical+costs&page=1&qsrc=2106&dm=all&ab=4&title=Senators+vote+down+plan+to+cut+drug+costs+-+TheHill.com&u=http%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fhomenews%2Fsenate%2F60197-senators-reject-proposal-to-lower-drug-costs&sg=eHGxHs1EBpk33vLkJ3nGPThjQN9v3TIPiyq5sUPey14%3D&tsp=1257899127653
"JC HOTR, where do you work? I thought only government workers get off Veterans day anymore?"
Self-employed my friend. Just taking it easy.
Do you work in IT?
I read/skimmed your article and not sure what your point is.
"I read/skimmed your article and not sure what your point is."
The point is that the politicians who say they want to cut health care costs just voted down a plan to cut costs!! WHY?!?! The American people had an opportunity to save money and THE DEMOCRATS TOOK IT OFF THE TABLE!! TELL ME WHY INSTEAD OF INSISTING ON CHANGING MY HEALTH CARE!!
Yes, I work in it.
So you admit that your leaders love telling others what to do, but hate being told what to do. Good, so we can move on now.
"So you admit that your leaders love telling others what to do, but hate being told what to do. Good, so we can move on now."
Raygun, it's so obvious when you don't know what to say anymore because you write stupid shit that only you can understand. It must be your personal inside joke. lol.
So now that you don't know what the fuck to say, let's move on.
"you can't do drugs, you have no right to die with dignity, no abortions, no same sex marriage, on and on,"
--
HOTR, your telling me the above doesn't apply to mainly the right wing zealot nut squad? The same nuts you voted for?
"HOTR, your telling me the above doesn't apply to mainly the right wing zealot nut squad? The same nuts you voted for?"
Raygun, I don't agree with everything the republicans so or do unlike the libs the follow their politicians like puppy dogs and praise them to no end. I just agree more with republicans then I do democrats. I've seen what the democrat philosophy has done to minorities. I came from the Bronx which has always been dominated by the lib politicians. What have they done for them? Democrats have minority following because if you rob Peter to pay Paul, you will always have Paul's support.
HOTR, you don't sound like a religious zealot right wing con, so seems strange that you follow people who believe in imaginary beings so closely.
HOTR, I am with you. Make the poor earn their handouts. Put them to work picking up trash etc. But I despise the bankers/Enron/Wall Street/etc and their like way more than I despise the poor.
"Make the poor earn their handouts. Put them to work picking up trash etc."
I wouldn't go that far. I mean that you don't help minorities when you passed them via social promotion. Hard to get a job when you are not educated properly. The dems constantly tell minorities that they can't get ahead because of white people. I find that to be demeaning to me. I can accomplish whatever I work for and no white man is getting in my way.
"I mean that you don't help minorities when you passed them via social promotion. Hard to get a job when you are not educated properly."
I totally agree HOTR. College changed my life. But the government paid for my college (after 10 torturous years in the USAF, so I earned it). I graduated college with an over all 3.89 grade point average. The government helped me accomplish that by supporting me. Plus the government steered me into computers, 15 years ago, and is why I majored in computer science.
Why can't we help the poor get educated?
"Why can't we help the poor get educated?"
I don't have a problem with that. The poor have plenty of government help that I can't get for my children. But when you have politicians constantly tell you that you need them then motivation can sometimes fall by the wayside.
Ray Gun, you graduated from college with a 3.89 grade point average? That's very impressive. I'm happy to have such an intelligent fellow as you on my side.
"The poor have plenty of government help that I can't get for my children. "
Like what?
I would never of made it through 5.5 years of college in 4 years without the governments help. I have friends that made it through 4 years, but it took them around 12 years of part time effort.
My mother made it through 4 years while working full time and I never saw anyone work as hard as she did (but at the expense of us kids to a large degree).
"after 10 torturous years in the USAF, so I earned it"
I thank you for your service Raygun. It's people like you who have given us our freedom. Happy Veteran's Day!!
"Ray Gun, you graduated from college with a 3.89 grade point average? That's very impressive. I'm happy to have such an intelligent fellow as you on my side."
You're lucky CJP. I wish he was on my side. lol
Ray Gun has lots of bright, insightful, worthwhile things to say. He's well worth paying attention to.
The government is not all evil. They did right by me during the Clinton years (after I got out at least). I had time to study and they offered great support.
Between savings and my wife (at the time girlfriend) we were able to afford a brand new 2 level town home and by the time I graduated it had appreciated about 55k. So I lived basically rent free for 4 years. Thanks government.
The only negative I can think of about those 4 years is that's when I started to drink. And GD I have been out of it today from yesterdays excess.
"Ray Gun has lots of bright, insightful, worthwhile things to say. He's well worth paying attention to."
I listen to both you guys, CJP. I know I can get dramatic sometimes but I hope neither of you take it personally. You can call me anything you want. I won't take it personal either.
CJP, you should of heard HOTR this am. JC, Anon2 had him fired up. I think he might of actually crossed the border and peed in HOTR's corn flakes. :-)
I can call you anything I want, HOTR? You're making me an offer I can't refuse.
I have a gigantic vocabulary, especially in that area. Please -- lead me not into the path of temptation.
lol. It's just that I think it's disrespectful for an anonymous to come into a conversation without having the courtesy of having a name. I believe that CJP has taken time out of his schedule for our entertainment. We've taken 2 minutes to set up a name. Why shouldn't he?
"I have a gigantic vocabulary, especially in that area. Please -- lead me not into the path of temptation."
I believe you CJP. lol
LOL
--
I agree also with you HOTR on the name, but America? hasnt been back since he set up his name.
"I agree also with you HOTR on the name, but America? hasnt been back since he set up his name."
I think that was before my time. You guys are veterans here. I'm the newbie.
"I think that was before my time."
--
I said the same thing to him. Get a name, which he did, commented a few times, then never came back.
I was an Anon for quite a while also.
I agree with you on this one, HOTR. Anon 2 has contributed many useful and worthwhile things to our discussion. I think he should have a better name than Anonmyous 2, especially because that name causes him to be confused with all the Bad Anonymi who are floating around out there in the ethersphere.
Even if Anon 2 does live in Canada, it's well worth hearing what he has to say.
Of course, you're the one we're all jealous of because you are the only one who lives in New York -- which is truly the center of the universe -- and the capital city of the world.
I've decided to ignore any anonymous'. Don't care if they're con or lib, they don't deserve my attention.
Yes, if even Ray Gun can give up his Anonymity and become Ray Gun, then Anon 2 should be prepared to make a similar sacrifice.
Comon Anon2, get a google name. It's easy, plus you really fire up the cons over here.
"So get rid of the government, schools, police, fire department, libraries, Medicare, Medicaid, SS, prisons etc. etc. Return to the days of the Wild West, anarchy eh? Oh Boy..... it would be a real jungle out there in the USA, even more than it already is!!! They'd shoot each other like flies."
-Little Boy
You could easily get rid of medicare, medicaid and SS! Anyone with a brain can figure out these are a waste of money!!! I have already shown CJP and Raygun the math on why these programs are a failure.
Every American tax payer could retire a millionaire if they were allowed to save the money they pay into these failing programs.
"Every American tax payer could retire a millionaire if they were allowed to save the money they pay into these failing programs."
I agree Brandon. Libs will never understand the magic of compound interest.
"Every American tax payer could retire a millionaire"
--
The GD Dow has been going side ways for 12 GD years. It's been stuck at 10,000. What are you cons drinking?
"The GD Dow has been going side ways for 12 GD years. It's been stuck at 10,000. What are you cons drinking?"
Raygun, even if you only put your money in fixed interest, it's still a lot more than you get from SS. Learn about compound interest. I think you'll like it.
"The GD Dow has been going side ways for 12 GD years. It's been stuck at 10,000. What are you cons drinking?"
-Raygun
You really need to check your comments before you post them. The dow hit over 14,000 two years ago.
"You really need to check your comments before you post them. The dow hit over 14,000 two years ago."
JC BB, it's around 10k today as it was 12 years ago.
"JC BB, it's around 10k today as it was 12 years ago."
Why worry Raygun. Isn't Obama the savior fixing this??
"Raygun, even if you only put your money in fixed interest, it's still a lot more than you get from SS. "
Ok cons, then if you become disabled what are you going to do without SS?
HOTR, forget interest as inflation negates it all.
"HOTR, forget interest as inflation negates it all."
Compound interest outpaces inflation. Libs love SS the greatest ponzi scheme ever!!
"HOTR, forget interest as inflation negates it all."
Oh wait. You might be right the way Obama is spending money we don't have. lol
"Why worry Raygun. Isn't Obama the savior fixing this?? "
--
You cons created such a mess there is likely no way out.
I have all my money in inflation linked bonds, gold, guns, ammo, and butter (figuratively speaking).
I really think something big will happen like pandemic, assassination, financial collapse, riots, civil war, hyperinflation, something on that scale. I give it maybe a 35 percent likely hood of happening. Sixty five percent chance it won't happen and I will still be comfortable in retirement, especially if I can count on SS.
"Compound interest outpaces inflation. Libs love SS the greatest ponzi scheme ever!!"
--
I briefly thought that HOTR, but interest is less than inflation, plus you have to pay taxes on any interest you do make.
The ponzi scheme is the stock market.
"I will still be comfortable in retirement, especially if I can count on SS."
You love that ponzi scheme don't ya?
"I briefly thought that HOTR, but interest is less than inflation, plus you have to pay taxes on any interest you do make."
Yeah...it's too much for the gov to NOT tax us. You libs love your government taxing you.
"I briefly thought that HOTR, but interest is less than inflation, plus you have to pay taxes on any interest you do make."
Ever hear of 401k Raygun?
"The ponzi scheme is the stock market."
A ponzi scheme is when you get more and more investors in order to pay old investors. The scheme goes on as long as you have new suckers paying into it. Similar to SS.
For the record HOTR (Im not sure if you were fking with me about wishing me on your side awhile back) I liked RayGun way back when. He was right for the times, but the times have changed. Taxes, minority job preference, etc, were really out of whack back then. That is not the case today. Plus the biggest bad back then was communism. And communism is bad. And communism is pretty much dead today.
We have an annuity. Sucks as we can't access it until we retire, or quit a job. TIAA Cref. Only choice my wife has, and we both just kick into that.
"For the record HOTR (Im not sure if you were fking with me about wishing me on your side awhile back)"
I wasn't f'ing with ya man. You're ok. We just have a difference in philosophy. The great thing about America is we can have a difference of opinion. And I respect all military men and women. We would be less of a country without you.
HOTR and I respect your beliefs especially since they don't seem to include the big guy upstairs (he causes a lot of trouble) :-)
"I briefly thought that HOTR, but interest is less than inflation, plus you have to pay taxes on any interest you do make.
The ponzi scheme is the stock market."
-Raygun
Interest is good, even if you do have to pay taxes on it. Plus there are other areas you could invest your money instead of pissing it away on SS or medicare or medicaid. Realestate!
HOW THE HELL IS THE STOCK MARKET A PONZI SCHEME???
Actually, I never heard that the stock market is a Ponzi Scheme.
What I've heard is that the stock market is The Biggest Casino in the World.
And, that comes from one who has the results to prove it. You know -- the one who leaves the Casino wearing the last shirt he owns.
"What I've heard is that the stock market is The Biggest Casino in the World."
-CJP
It is true, there is some risk in the stock market but there is risk in everything you do. Think about how much risk you have starting your own company.
The stock market is a good investment as long as you invest for the long term. People who lose their shirt are usually trying to time the markets.
HOTR said...
"Because if I don't have a car then I don't need insurance."
Indeed......
BUT you DO have a BODY so you NEED health insurance!!!!!!
Real smart to compare auto insurance with health insurance eh? LOL LOL
Anon2
HOTR said...
"Why is it that I can choose from hundreds of auto insurance companies and I only can choose from 4 health insurers in my state?"
That's because health insurance co's gobbled each other up to eliminate competition and up the premiums.
Some states even have less than 4.
Anon2
You're absolutely right about that, Brandon. My friend was a Day Trader.
A Day Trader -- that means "Here Today, Gone Tomorrow."
Actually, starting your own company may be the least risky thing you can possibly do -- much less risky than buying stock in someone else's company.
With your own company, you know exactly what is going on, you have total control, and you can make the decisions you want. You also get to keep all (or the lion's share) of the profits.
You're working for yourself, not making big profits for somebody else. So, Brandon, if you ever have the chance to start your own company, that would give you the best possible chance of becoming a millionaire in this country.
"That's because health insurance co's gobbled each other up to eliminate competition and up the premiums.
Some states even have less than 4."
Here's another uninformed statement from the idiot. Since you won't register a name, I'll just give you a name. How about Asshole? Hey Asshole, try to get your facts straight!!
"Actually, starting your own company may be the least risky thing you can possibly do -- much less risky than buying stock in someone else's company."
-CJP
I dont think so, 80% of companies fail in the first five years.
I invest in mutual funds which are made up of companies that have been around at least ten years. On average they perform very well, averaging around 8-10% every year. Much better than the return I will ever see from SS!
I do agree with you that owning a small buisness is the best way to becoming a millionaire. Also, its very rewarding and some day I hope to own a buisness. Perhaps manufacturing ATV racing products!
source:
http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=92168
It is true, there is some risk in the stock market
--
JC BB, what an understatement.
The Dow is pretty much exactly where it was 12 years ago, 10000. Sure, recently it was up to 14000, and more recently it was down to 6700. You are trusting the masters of the universe to tell you what to do. And you believe them?
"The Dow is pretty much exactly where it was 12 years ago, 10000. Sure, recently it was up to 14000, and more recently it was down to 6700. You are trusting the masters of the universe to tell you what to do. And you believe them?"
-Raygun
Now you just being stupid! How are the "masters of the universe" telling what to do??? I invest in what I want to, not what they tell me to!
The stock market was at 10,000 about 12yrs ago. It was also at 10,000 6yrs and 8yrs ago. It goes up and down, but averages growth! Think long term.
So, sorry bb, tell us the truth.
"So, sorry bb, tell us the truth."
-Raygun
The truth about what, your vague generalizations or your attempts to avoid conflicting facts to your statements?
Am i that good? Bono...
Radio Head....
"Am i that good? Bono..."
-Raygun
Sad, if thats you definition of good.
Why is it when someone shows you the truth and you dont like it you just turn away and change the subject. Is that your idea of being a progressive. Again you just sound like a liberal!
ok, cons and Kofka...
what dont ye get?
Sometimes RG gets full of his brilliance to the point where we have to actually guess what he is talking about.
Why is it when someone shows you the truth... funny one
"Why is it when someone shows you the truth... funny one"
-Raygun
I have shown you over and over again why gold is a bad investment yet you continue to praise gold! Its a poor return and is still recovering from the last crash it had in the 80s.
Why wont you admit your wrong??? You have been watching to many gold commercials.
During the 80s people were buying gold to protect themselves against inflation and in doing so they ran the price thru the roof. Once interest rates settled down the value of gold crashed hard!!!
Today people are worried about the value of the dollar and combined with the recession they, again, are driving the price of gold up. It will crash again, in the near future! Buy real estate, its on sale, gold in at a high!!!
-Gold prices adjusted for inflation:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/gold-REAL-dollars.gif
-Interst rates in the United States:
http://www.mortgageguideuk.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/g7-interest-rates.jpg
"Buy real estate, its on sale"
--
We are thinking of buying 20 acres or so in WA or ?
I hate stocks as we all know its a game for insiders.
"We are thinking of buying 20 acres or so in WA or ?"
-Raygun
That is what I am talking about! I am trying to convince you gold is a bad investment and you go on about real estate and dont even mention all the sources I gave you showing gold as a poor investment.
BB, my 1 ounce Double Eagles have nearly tripled in value in less than 12 months.
BB, the government of India, less than a week ago, purchased 200 tons of gold. That's the reason for the recent run up in price. The world is starting to not trust our pretty green paper.
"BB, the government of India, less than a week ago, purchased 200 tons of gold." RG
I guess this is supposed to impress us somehow.
"BB, my 1 ounce Double Eagles have nearly tripled in value in less than 12 months."
-Raygun
Wow! My return on my mutual funds averages 10% every single year! What does your useless gold coin average every year for the last 100yrs? Make sure your not averaging it since the late 80s, like most pro gold people do!
"The world is starting to not trust our pretty green paper."
-Raygun
Real estate and mutual funds have little to nothing to do with "pretty green paper". Its an asset like gold, but with a far better return.
"My return on my mutual funds averages 10% every single year!"
BB, oh ode to youth, where do I begin and keep it simple at the same time (good writing technique,listen to Obama some time)?
If your fund has returned 10 percent per year the last 10 years it's a Bernie Madoff fund, as 12 years ago or so the DJIA was 10k as it was roughly today.
Although my coins have tripled, there are terrible tax consequences (the government does not want you buying gold). I understand those consequences. BB, I am not betting the farm on gold etc. Gold takes up very little space relative to value. More than paper but again, paper is paper. Blah blah etc.
"If your fund has returned 10 percent per year the last 10 years it's a Bernie Madoff fund, as 12 years ago or so the DJIA was 10k as it was roughly today."
-Raygun
My funds Average a 10 percent return! You are forgetting to count dividends, that is were most of your growth is. Does you gold pay you dividends?
This is one of my funds.
The Investment Company of America:
https://www.americanfunds.com/funds/details/results-graph.htm?fundGroupNumber=4
"If your fund has returned 10 percent per year the last 10 years it's a Bernie Madoff fund, as 12 years ago or so the DJIA was 10k as it was roughly today."
-Raygun
My funds Average a 10 percent return! You are forgetting to count dividends, that is were most of your growth is. Does you gold pay you dividends?
Dividends are important, Brandon. It's good that you are in stocks which pay good dividends.
"Dividends are important, Brandon. It's good that you are in stocks which pay good dividends."
-CJP
Thank you, I am trying to explain to Raygun, the advantages that mutual funds have over gold.
The stock market hasn't been much better. If you invested $100 in the S&P 500 at the end of the last decade, you're happy with Dow 10000 but still hoping for a 34.5% rally before year end -- just to break even. You'll need a staggering 72% rally when adjusting for inflation.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125556534569686215.html
---
BB, I don't trust the masters of the universe, sorry. It's a giant pyramid scheme and the first one out does ok, but rest don't.
Property will be my next investment in addition to the annuity we already have, which is mostly invested in inflation linked bonds.
Funny, really hard to find returns for the last decade on google. It's like they're hiding it.
Please read the above quote. Doubt they are discounting dividends in their calculations.
Maybe your fund is a Madoff type. He did real well the last decade also. On paper anyway.
Gold is only for a worst case scenario investment. Not planning to make a fortune unless the worst happens.
Note: They tax gold profits at 35 percent. The government does not want you to hold gold.
BB, received my CC holster for my Kahr PM9 through US mail (new fan of US mail, as they have so much more to offer than UPS, FEDEX, etc).
Aren't you proud of me? I'm actually more of a con in the gun department than you (I would own a machine gun if legal, just for kicks).
"The stock market hasn't been much better. If you invested $100 in the S&P 500 at the end of the last decade, you're happy with Dow 10000 but still hoping for a 34.5% rally before year end -- just to break even. You'll need a staggering 72% rally when adjusting for inflation."
-Raygun/WSJ
Whats your point??? Using the same information and this investment were sold two years prior, you would have made around 30% plus dividends.
They are definitely not adding in dividends.
"BB, I don't trust the masters of the universe, sorry. It's a giant pyramid scheme and the first one out does ok, but rest don't."
-Raygun
How is it a pyramid scheme?
pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, often without any product or service being delivered.
"non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, often without any product or service being delivered."
--
exactly, financial services. of no worth.
"exactly, financial services. of no worth."
-Raygun
Your buying a piece of a company, its an asset like gold just with a good return.
BB, my Father, 12 years ago, was extolling the virtues of the stock market, during the Nasdaqs waning days.
"BB, my Father, 12 years ago, was extolling the virtues of the stock market, during the Nasdaqs waning days."
-Raygun
Thats nice, how is that relevant? I am talking about mutual funds for a long term investor.
"100% of the 15 year periods in the stock market have made money"
-Dave Ramsey
I dunno BB, take the con statistics with a grain of salt.
No one believes them anymore
"...take the con statistics with a grain of salt.
No one believes them anymore"
-Raygun
Dave Ramsey is a financial advisor and a millionaire. Is that what you do with facts you dont want to hear. Call them names and then dismiss what they say.
This is why I keep calling you a liberal!
This is why I keep calling you a liberal!
--
BB, the masters of the universe's bs is just that, bs. Times change.
Is your boy Dave Ramsey, pretty, is your boy Dave Ramsey, charming? I don't know BB, I have never heard of him, I am not going to even investigate it.
"BB, the masters of the universe's bs is just that, bs. Times change.
Is your boy Dave Ramsey, pretty, is your boy Dave Ramsey, charming? I don't know BB, I have never heard of him, I am not going to even investigate it."
-Raygun
Where do you see the market 30yrs from now??? up or down from today?
Dave Ramsey is an older man who has become a millionaire twice. He now teaches his story of how and why he lost all of his money the first time.
Today he, again, is a millionaire with no worrys of going broke!
http://www.daveramsey.com
BB, my advice to you son (:-)) think outside the box.
Try contrary BB, you'll see. The more you guys say gold is stupid, the more I think I am ok in my investment.
"BB, my advice to you son (:-)) think outside the box.
Try contrary BB, you'll see. The more you guys say gold is stupid, the more I think I am ok in my investment."
-Raygun
Thats fine but when gold prices fall like a rock, I'll be the one laughing at you! The stock market is down but I am still getting paid for having my stocks.
I am waiting for the day when they figure out how to produce gold in a lab. Then what will happend to your investments?
"I am waiting for the day when they figure out how to produce gold in a lab. Then what will happend to your investments? "
--
BB, I agree with ye (ocean water is packed with gold), I have investments in palladium, silver, platinum, and rare US gold and silver coins. The rare US gold and silver coins have tripled in value, in the last 12-16 months or so. Whatever. Sure, I have to sell them and pay taxes. I agree.
"BB, I agree with ye (ocean water is packed with gold), I have investments in palladium, silver, platinum, and rare US gold and silver coins. The rare US gold and silver coins have tripled in value, in the last 12-16 months or so. Whatever. Sure, I have to sell them and pay taxes. I agree."
-Raygun
My points:
Gold has a poor rate of return compared to mutual funds.
According to you have they have high tax rates.
If science could recreate gold it would become almost worthless overnight.
You have to store it safely.
It justs up and down rapidly thru history and when was the last time you bought anything using gold?
Thanks BB for your input.
I am a contrarian.
BB, http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog.php?cPath=28
Recomendation: "Minotaur MTAC Holster". Nothing even close. Wear all day and incredibly comfortable.
Nice looking holster
BB, unbelievably comfortable. I carry a 36.4 ounce .45, 12 rounds, all day long.
Five + other holsters don't even come close in comfort.
Reading a new book: The Looting of America.
It explains the bs going on with Wall Street, and why the entire global financial system nearly collapsed.
Does it talk about how stupid people keep borrowing money they cant pay back?
Yes BB, it talks about usury's.
"Yes BB, it talks about usury's."
-Raygun
Why is it that creditors can charge any amount of interest and yet people will still borrow money from them?
"Why is it that creditors can charge any amount of interest and yet people will still borrow money from them? "
--
Bingo. I agree BB, and I think I have the answer...
"Bingo. I agree BB, and I think I have the answer..."
-Raygun
Stop giving these stupid people more money???
Educate these people on how to handle their finances?
"Stop giving these stupid people more money?"
--
Usury's? The Jews? The Jews should stop giving people more money?
I am fking with you BB. I think you understand.
You got to love those jews, they know how to save money!
LOL.
Thats the book I am reading now.
Money (and what 'money' really means).
I know the answer...
Have you checked out Dave Ramsey yet? You should read some of his books!
Plz give me Daves summation.
Short and simple.
Baby Step 1
$1,000 to start an Emergency Fund
An emergency fund is for those unexpected events in life that you can’t plan for: the loss of a job, an unexpected pregnancy, a faulty car transmission, and the list goes on and on. It’s not a matter of if these events will happen; it’s simply a matter of when they will happen. Learn more
Baby Step 2
Pay off all debt using the Debt Snowball
List your debts, excluding the house, in order. The smallest balance should be your number one priority. Don’t worry about interest rates unless two debts have similar payoffs. If that’s the case, then list the higher interest rate debt first. Learn more
Baby Step 3
3 to 6 months of expenses in savings
Once you complete the first two baby steps, you will have built serious momentum. But don’t start throwing all your “extra” money into investments quite yet. It’s time to build your full emergency fund. Learn more
Baby Step 4
Invest 15% of household income into Roth IRAs and pre-tax retirement
When you reach this step, you’ll have no payments—except the house—and a fully funded emergency fund. Now it’s time to get serious about building wealth. Learn more
Baby Step 5
College funding for children
By this point, you should have already started Baby Step 4—investing 15% of your income—before saving for college. Whether you are saving for you or your child to go to college, you need to start now. Learn more
Baby Step 6
Pay off home early
Now it’s time to begin chunking all of your extra money toward the mortgage. You are getting closer to realizing the dream of a life with no house payments. Learn more
Baby Step 7
Build wealth and give!
It’s time to build wealth and give like never before. Leave an inheritance for future generations, and bless others now with your excess. It's really the only way to live! Learn more
"Baby Step 7
Build wealth and give!
It’s time to build wealth and give like never before."
--
BB, sounds like a religion to me.
I know the answer BB... It's simpler than you think.
Why is it when someone gives money to help someone they have to be religious?
Why do liberals just want to keep their money and use other peoples tax dollars to help the poor?
Whats your answer?
"Whats your answer?"
--
Life; Pleasure and Pain.
"Life; Pleasure and Pain."
-Raygun
I agree, the problem is everyone wants pleasure without the pain.
Pain: Work, exercise and living within your means!
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