Thursday, June 17, 2010

GOP Party of Nope Obstructionist-Destructionist Policies Would Turn USA into Greece -- A Financial Walking Dead Invalid -- Obama Saved the USA

From The Washington Post -- June 16, 2010:


Hesitation by Leaders Drove Cost of Europe's Crisis Higher

By Howard Schneider and Anthony Faiola

The U.S. government and the International Monetary Fund warned European officials as early as February that escalating financial problems on their continent had to be addressed quickly to forestall a larger threat to the world economy, but those urgings were discounted, according to participants in the private discussions.

By the time European officials acted several months later -- prompted by a near-meltdown in Greece and gathering chaos in other countries -- the price tag for stemming the financial contagion had soared.

After the meltdown of the U.S. housing market showed how one country's financial problems can spill across borders, the IMF and leaders of the world's top economies have spoken of a heightened sensitivity to "systemic risk" and a greater focus on preventing it.

But the upheaval in Europe, sparked by the threat of a Greek default, underscored a paradox in how economic powers confront evolving crises. Political systems and their leaders often prove hesitant to take dramatic action on the sort of partial evidence available when a threat is emerging, avoiding decisions on controversial and expensive measures until there is no choice. But once the markets have delivered a full verdict, the crisis is in full swing and stopping it becomes harder and more expensive.

Despite mounting market evidence, warnings from the IMF and what U.S. officials described as "alarm bells" being sounded by the U.S. Treasury, European leaders this winter continued to take a minimalist approach and conclude that Greece could solve its own problems. It was only after world bond markets had all but abandoned the country, interest rates had begun rising in other European nations, and banks had become hesitant to lend each other money -- a phenomenon reminiscent of the 2008 global credit meltdown -- that European officials acted in earnest.

Over the intervening months, the cost of helping Greece avoid default increased about fourfold, to $140 billion from roughly $35 billion at the start of the year. Confidence in the European economy was so badly battered that European leaders together with the IMF had to pledge another nearly $1 trillion to reassure investors. The world's nascent economic recovery was put into jeopardy.

"If we had been able to address it right from the start, say in February, I think we would have been able to prevent it from snowballing the way that it did," French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde said in an interview.

Her conclusion was shared in hindsight by many of the key figures involved in the Greek crisis, according to interviews with more than a dozen direct participants in the discussions.

Some senior European economic officials acknowledged that the Americans had pushed for an aggressive response but said they weren't the only ones. Other European officials said no one, including the United States and the IMF, fully understood the gravity of the situation until late April nor pushed intensely to address it.

Although the measures finally taken by European leaders in May helped stabilize markets, the experience raises questions about one of the basic principles now shaping debate over the world economy in the wake of the global finance crisis that spiked in 2008 -- namely that with the right information and tools, political and financial leaders can minimize systemwide risks and forestall problems before they become too serious.

Much as Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke insisted for months in 2007 that U.S. financial problems would remain mainly limited to the subprime mortgage market, key Greek and European financial leaders maintained that Greece would be able to borrow the money it needed on the open market, restructure its economy and not pose any larger threat.

And just as Congress initially balked at a proposed bailout for U.S. banks, Europe's political leadership assumed it could tame markets with mere statements of support for Greece, and would not commit public money until the need was certain -- a delay that allowed the financial decay to reach crisis levels.

In the U.S. and European cases, evidence about the scope and potential spread of the problem were on the table, but the leaders involved were reluctant to act.

"What the IMF said from the beginning is that you need a much more comprehensive program," said a top IMF official familiar with the discussions. "The economics of it got worse and worse because market sentiment was essentially in a free fall. What could be seen as a small, manageable problem six months ago transformed into a huge, oversized problem."

He said leaders were initially daunted by the cost of shoring up the European financial system, though the sum was a great bargain compared with the ultimate price.

From the trading floors of London investment houses to the halls of the U.S. Treasury and the executive suites of the IMF, observers outside Europe began looking for -- and in some cases urging -- a decisive step as early as November.

That's when Greek-born interest rate strategist Ioannis Sokos noted on his flat-screen displays at BNP Paribas how Greek banks had begun vacuuming up low-interest loans from the European Central Bank and suspected the firms were trying to stockpile funds before investors cut them off. He interpreted this as a sign of desperation.

"There was too much borrowing going on," he said, "and it was then -- in November -- that we had the first real indication of the depth of the problem."

The markets rendered a more public judgment in December. The new Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, laid out plans to cut the country's budget deficit and reinvigorate its economy, but international bond-rating agencies were unimpressed. They downgraded the country's credit standing, the start of a rout that pushed Greece's borrowing costs to levels more familiar to credit card customers than sovereign nations.

Papandreou's proposals were "unlikely, on their own, to lead to a sustainable reduction" in Greece's debt, Standard and Poor's wrote.

At that point, top officials in the White House and at the IMF were still in accord with Europe that Greece had a chance to fix its own problems. If the country needed help, the cost was considered large but manageable -- $30 billion to $35 billion.

The level of concern began to surge in January, as the first evidence of financial contagion surfaced outside Greece in Spain and Portugal, reflected in the higher borrowing costs they were facing.

IMF officials foresaw the need for a larger and more sustained effort to help Greece than envisioned at the time by many Europeans.

By early February, U.S. officials were growing deeply worried, according to a senior administration official, and Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and others began "engaging and engaging frequently" with European leaders for a broader and faster response.

He was in close contact with his German and French counterparts. Treasury officials were particularly exasperated with the apparent inability of the 16 eurozone countries, which share a common currency, to muster an emergency rescue for one of their own.

At a gathering of top world finance ministers in Iqaluit, Northwest Territories, in early February, Geithner pressed the issue with an increasing sense of urgency, even as his European counterparts insisted they were in control.

European leaders "will make sure it is managed," Lagarde said as she left the meeting. Asked how he felt about Greece's situation, European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet, summed up the feeling on the European side: "confident."

80 comments:

Anonymous said...

Indeed Nope's would without hesitation. They only support Big Corporations, never any country, financially and morally.

But then, Spain and Portugal could be next (after Greece) and that's old news: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/the_new_inquisition_azqeHGquYyb13YVEbCe0SL

Anon2 said...

The above post was mine. :)

RayGun said...

Cons support big corps doing things their little minds don't understand but think must be for the good, as they make money doing it. Derivatives, Enron, Wall Street, Bankers, actually the entire financial sector is to blame for our mess. Well them and especially the not to bright cons for voting to deregulate all the above. Thanks again cons.

Brandon said...

"especially the not to bright cons for voting to deregulate all the above."
-Raygun

I thought we already agreed you were wrong on this topic? You were unable to give me one piece of legislation the republicans passed to deregulate wall street that lead us into this recession. Why didnt your liberals idols pass any legislation, they have been in control of congress for the last 3yrs!

Brandon said...

Raygun

When will you liberals grow up and except the fact that liberals are hurting our country every day they are in power!

RayGun said...

"especially the not to bright cons for voting to deregulate all the above."

The con party is the regulations are evil party. And they are so dumb, that even today, after all the messes their lack of regulation created, they are still screaming for more de regulation. Doubling down on stupid.

RayGun said...

"When will you liberals grow up and except the fact that liberals are hurting our country every day they are in power!"

The liberals are once again cleaning up the con mess. Just like Clinton did with the first Bush and RayGuns mess.

RayGun said...

"The government is not the solution to the problem the government is the problem"

Dear dear leader, Ronny RayGun.

And here we are today. Thanks cons.

And cons are so GD dumb, even today, after all we have been through, they are trying to outdo each other at who is the most like Ronny.

Brandon said...

"...even today, after all the messes their lack of regulation created, they are still screaming for more de regulation. Doubling down on stupid."
-Raygun

Once again, you CANT give me one single example of what your talking about. That must mean your LYING like normal! Why are the liberals the masters of lying, name calling and smearing?

What deregulations are the conservatives responsible for that caused this depression and why didn't the liberals pass the needed regulations?

RayGun said...

JHC, I was about to go to bed..

"What deregulations are the conservatives responsible for that caused this depression"

Not so much deregulation, but lack of regulation as in derivatives, and lack of home loan regulations.

Brandon said...

"Not so much deregulation, but lack of regulation as in derivatives, and lack of home loan regulations."
-Raygun

Would it be a more accurate to say the problem, in your opinion, was CONGRESS failed to pass legislation to prevent the recession, not simply conservatives!

RayGun said...

"Would it be a more accurate to say the problem, in your opinion, was CONGRESS failed to pass legislation"

I would say congress new it would be a waste of time as w would of vetoed it.

The pres has great power in the veto.

Brandon said...

"I would say congress new it would be a waste of time as w would of vetoed it.

The pres has great power in the veto."
-Raygun

Congress dont need to president to pass legislation!

Brandon said...

Stop trying to blame conservatives for AMERICAS problems! Sub prime loans were the problem, not everyone needs to buy a home!

RayGun said...

"Would it be a more accurate to say the problem, in your opinion, was CONGRESS failed to pass legislation"

You're drunk. Go read up on the laws. 2/3s majority.

RayGun said...

Sub prime loans? Why the fk did I need to buy insurance on my home loan, lender required, about 300 per month, 12 years ago and the poor people don't need insurance? Barney forced them to forgo the insurance?

Brandon said...

"You're drunk. Go read up on the laws. 2/3s majority."
-Raygun

Not every republican is a conservative! Some, I wouldnt even call republicans.

Brandon said...

"Sub prime loans? Why the fk did I need to buy insurance on my home loan, lender required, about 300 per month, 12 years ago and the poor people don't need insurance? Barney forced them to forgo the insurance?"
-Raygun

Why the hell do you pay 300/month for home owners insurance? Who is to blame for the poor not buying insurance?

RayGun said...

"Not every republican is a conservative! Some, I wouldnt even call republicans. "

You are wanting to double down on dumb.

Lose your con God, and I may come over to your side.

Lets quit having so many kids. Thats our problem...

Brandon said...

"I would say congress new it would be a waste of time as w would of vetoed it."
-Raygun

"...If the President vetoes a bill, they (congress) may override his veto by passing the bill again in each chamber with at least two-thirds of each body voting in favor."


source:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government/legislative-branch

RayGun said...

"Why the hell do you pay 300/month for home owners insurance?"

Everyone was forced to more or less back in Clintons days if you didn't have a 20 percent down payment. JHC.

GD that was the rule 15 years ago. 20 percent down or mortgage insurance. No choice.

Brandon said...

"Lose your con God, and I may come over to your side.

Lets quit having so many kids. Thats our problem..."
-Raygun

Why are you convinced god is a requirement for being a conservative, have I ever dragged god into our debates?

Second, liberals have breeding just as fast or faster than conservatives. Conservatives at least TRY to prevent there kids from fking when their 12.

Brandon said...

"Everyone was forced to more or less back in Clintons days if you didn't have a 20 percent down payment. JHC.

GD that was the rule 15 years ago. 20 percent down or mortgage insurance. No choice."
-Raygun

Oh, your talking about PMI, right?

Brandon said...

How about no body buys a house without at least 20% down! Stop pressuring bank to loan money!

RayGun said...

""...If the President vetoes a bill, they (congress) may override his veto by passing the bill again in each chamber with at least two-thirds of each body voting in favor."

JHC, 2/3s majority. The dems cant even barely pass a health care bill with a simple majority.

Brandon said...

"JHC, 2/3s majority. The dems cant even barely pass a health care bill with a simple majority."
-Raygun

Thats because our country doesnt want the health insurance! If it was important then both sides would support it, not divided down party lines!

RayGun said...

"Second, liberals have breeding just as fast or faster than conservatives. Conservatives at least TRY to prevent there kids from fking when their 12."

Get your God off my back. He is imaginary.

RayGun said...

"Thats because our country doesnt want the health insurance! If it was important then both sides would support it, not divided down party lines!"

So again, if any kind of regulation was passed in congress, w would of vetoed it, and congress would of never found 2/3s majority. No way, no how.

Brandon said...

"So again, if any kind of regulation was passed in congress, w would of vetoed it, and congress would of never found 2/3s majority. No way, no how."
-Raygun

and thus it would be something our country didnt want!

Brandon said...

Why wont you admit that the dems didnt have a clue before this recession and they still dont!

RayGun said...

"and thus it would be something our country didnt want!"

Again, dems would of regulated the bankers, and home loans, if they knew idiot w would not waste all their time and veto anything that was passed

RayGun said...

"Why wont you admit that the dems didnt have a clue before this recession and they still dont! "

Why won't you admit the con God is imaginary?

Brandon said...

"Again, dems would of regulated the bankers, and home loans, if they knew idiot w would not waste all their time and veto anything that was passed"
-Raygun

Why didnt they do it under Clinton? Did they even try?

Let me get what your saying straight, they did nothing and said nothing but now they are blaming conseratives for the recession? You may have some ground to stand on if the liberals were rejected on several pieces of legislation!

Brandon said...

"Why won't you admit the con God is imaginary?"
-Raygun

Do you have any evidence to prove he is imaginary? I dont see enough evidence on either side to make a accurate call on GOD.

RayGun said...

"Why didnt they do it under Clinton? Did they even try? "

Clinton said sure, they let the derivative crap run, but it was really new back then. And he also said they would of reeled it in during w's 8 years as it became obvious what a danger it was.

BB, you buying gold yet? Going short on gold?

RayGun said...

"Do you have any evidence to prove he is imaginary? I dont see enough evidence on either side to make a accurate call on GOD. "

Common sense.

Brandon said...

"Common sense."
-Raygun

Common sense back in the day was the earth was flat, think for your self and make your own call, I have and you will never know my choice because its no one elses buisness!

Brandon said...

"BB, you buying gold yet? Going short on gold?"
-Raygun

Now is the time to sell gold not buy it, its a bubble waiting to pop! Why do you think every gold company in the world is trying to sell gold right now???

RayGun said...

"Common sense back in the day was the earth was flat, think for your self and make your own call, I have and you will never know my choice because its no one elses buisness! "

I know what your choice is, because if you really believed you would be down in Africa helping the poor.

RayGun said...

"Now is the time to sell gold not buy it, its a bubble waiting to pop! Why do you think every gold company in the world is trying to sell gold right now???"

Sell short then BB. Its easy. But timing is everything. Timing is the hard part.

You could be a trillionaire if your timing was correct, in any market. Being right is only part of getting rich, timing is the other part....

Brandon said...

I know what your choice is, because if you really believed you would be down in Africa helping the poor.
-Raygun

You dont have to believe in god to help others! It must really hurt your ego to know that churches actually help other people in more ways than you can understand.

Brandon said...

"Sell short then BB. Its easy. But timing is everything. Timing is the hard part.

You could be a trillionaire if your timing was correct, in any market. Being right is only part of getting rich, timing is the other part...."
-Raygun

Tell that to a day trader, get rich quick is a stupid plan and almost never works. Invest long term and you will almost always succeed. I will stick with my investment plan and we will see where I end up in 40yrs.

RayGun said...

"It must really hurt your ego to know that churches actually help other people"

I understand that they do help, but at what cost?

RayGun said...

"I will stick with my investment plan and we will see where I end up in 40yrs."

Ok BB, but understand, once everyone figures out the grand plan, then something will replace it...

Think contrarian.

Brandon said...

"I understand that they do help, but at what cost?"
-Raygun

I dont know, but my guess its far less than the governments so called help!

Lets throw money at the poor and see if that will make them rich...

Why do you think as we increase our social programs in this country the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer?

Brandon said...

"Ok BB, but understand, once everyone figures out the grand plan, then something will replace it...

Think contrarian."
-Raygun

Everyone can figure out my investment plan at it would only make me richer!

RayGun said...

"Lets throw money at the poor and see if that will make them rich..."

Lets force them to educate themselves.

All I know is what Clinton did for me, my education, computer science, 15 years ago (roughly). I thought they were crazy..

Computers, internet, Gore, you guys are nuts...

Brandon said...

"Lets force them to educate themselves.

All I know is what Clinton did for me, my education, computer science, 15 years ago (roughly). I thought they were crazy..

Computers, internet, Gore, you guys are nuts..."
-Raygun

How would you propose we do that?

RayGun said...

"How would you propose we do that? "

Uhhh, you will not receive payments unless you a) pick up trash on the road, b) go to school.

Easy.

Brandon said...

"Lets force them to educate themselves.

All I know is what Clinton did for me, my education, computer science, 15 years ago (roughly). I thought they were crazy..

Computers, internet, Gore, you guys are nuts..."
-Raygun

How would you propose we do that?

Brandon said...

"Uhhh, you will not receive payments unless you a) pick up trash on the road, b) go to school.

Easy."
-Raygun

Lets do it! Why dont you and I sponsor an initiative to get it done. I am pretty sure conservatives would back it, in general!

RayGun said...

BB I agree, 99 weeks of unemployment, no strings attached, is ridiculous. I would love to do that right now. Half pay for 2 years, I would be in heaven.

Pain and pleasure is the essence of life.

Brandon said...

"BB I agree, 99 weeks of unemployment, no strings attached, is ridiculous. I would love to do that right now. Half pay for 2 years, I would be in heaven.

Pain and pleasure is the essence of life."
-Raygun

Doenst it make you sick hearing some of these people complain about how hard life is! EVERY person I know on unemployment could get by without it and they also are not searching for work as hard as they should.

Why are the liberals handing out all the unemployment extensions?

RayGun said...

"Why are the liberals handing out all the unemployment extensions?"

I agree BB.

But again, I know what my life used to be.

I had no skills. Now I can work anywhere in the world. I deal daily with people from Russia, China, France, etc, and I could move to any of those countries, at any time.

And again, Clinton and his wild ways, pushed me in the direction that I chose ???

So lets incentivesize people to work hard but work hard for realism.

Anyway, I still wish that Hillary would of won the primary, I voted for her in it, but Obama is still ok in my book.

Did you ever watch The Wire?

Brandon said...

"So lets incentivesize people to work hard but work hard for realism."
-Raygun

You really confuse me sometimes, your above comment seems to conflict with your previous comments. I also support spending money on education and it would seem you also agree but you have complained on several occations about conservatives spending money on public school. What does unemployment extensions have to do with "work hard for realism"?

RayGun said...

Ahh, dear BB, you missed my last line about watching "The Wire".

"you have complained on several occations about conservatives spending money on public school."

Yes, schools for kids that cons helped promulgate.

BB, an abortion is roughly 1k and birth control is even cheaper. A kids education is around 12k per year. Do the math.

I didn't choose to be here, and I would never know if I wasn't.

Brandon said...

"
"you have complained on several occations about conservatives spending money on public school."

Yes, schools for kids that cons helped promulgate.

BB, an abortion is roughly 1k and birth control is even cheaper. A kids education is around 12k per year. Do the math.

I didn't choose to be here, and I would never know if I wasn't."
-Raygun

Abortion is legal... Whats your point?

Brandon said...

"Yes, schools for kids that cons helped promulgate"
-Raygun

It sounds like you support free education for minors if they are not conservatives...

RayGun said...

"Abortion is legal... Whats your point? "

Cons push kids, then bitch about paying for the poor.

RayGun said...

"It sounds like you support free education for minors if they are not conservatives... "

Uh no. I say, lets all just quite having so many gd kids.

Brandon said...

"Cons push kids, then bitch about paying for the poor."
-Raygun

Cons do not push kids and they dont bitch about HELPING the poor. Get your facts straight.

RayGun said...

Bb, you dont have a choice about being forced into this life, but once you are, then maybe we should all help each other to live, for whatever its worth. Thats all I am trying to say.

Brandon said...

Uh no. I say, lets all just quite having so many gd kids.
-Raygun

I think this is some kind of record for us. Again, I agree with you! Maybe americans, not conservatives and not liberals but Americans need to be more responsible for themselves!

RayGun said...

Bb, you dont have a choice about being forced into this life, but once you are, then maybe we should all help each other to live, for whatever its worth. Thats all I am trying to say.

Im going to be famous once I am dead..

Brandon said...

"Bb, you dont have a choice about being forced into this life, but once you are, then maybe we should all help each other to live, for whatever its worth. Thats all I am trying to say."
-Raygun

Conservatives would agree with you on your comment but we do not want to carry some people thru this life because they dont WANT to work or even try. They dont deserve my efforts! Now a single mom working 2 jobs who lost her husband to cancer, I will help her as much as I can.

A disabled soldier, I will do what I can to help him/her.

A special ed. who is willing to work where ever he or she can, I will do what I can for.

A lazy piece of shit that had knee surgery 10yrs ago and is still milking welfare, he or she can go fk him or her self!

RayGun said...

"A lazy piece of shit that had knee surgery 10yrs ago and is still milking welfare, he or she can go fk him or her self! "

Clinton fixed that so 5 years is the max you could claim on welfare.

Brandon said...

"Clinton fixed that so 5 years is the max you could claim on welfare."
-Raygun

What about SS disability?

Brandon said...

If Clinton shortend the length of time you can be on welfare, then good for him. Then we can add that to his list of accompishments. Clinton did a So So job as president and he did some good but he tried alot of bad things, like Clinton care.

RayGun said...

"What about SS disability? "

I agree BB, people don't have to physically work anymore, so they can answer phones, program computers, etc, do something. I agree. Push them to work. Amen.

Brandon said...

"I agree BB, people don't have to physically work anymore, so they can answer phones, program computers, etc, do something. I agree. Push them to work. Amen."
-Raygun

This is the area that congress has failed Americans the most. Even you and I can agree on somethings yet congress can even pass legislation to fix the problems you and I agree on. I think we need to clean congress out, liberals and conservatives and get some fresh faces in there!

What do you say?

RayGun said...

"What do you say?"

You're fresh faces are RayGun * 10.

I say get over your God, then I might come on board. I am tired of paying for others kids and your God promulgates kids. Amen.

RayGun said...

good night. I am so snocked, but I make sense, in my own minds eye.

RayGun said...

Ooops, try again.

Hey CJP, great article here.

"The booklet also neglects to point out the extent to which the long-term budget disaster story is driven by our broken health care system [incompetent insurance companies]. If per person health care costs in the United States were the same as in any other wealthy country, we would be looking at enormous budget surpluses in the long-term, not deficits."

Lots of other Gems also

RayGun said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anon2 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
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CJP said...

Thank you, Anonymous. Please keep coming back and join in our discussions.

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